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Google Is Eating Our Mail

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Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#151

Post by mikestew »

oldjokes wrote: post #137
Kalium wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but still a major site that presumably generates a lot of revenue That's very possible! It's definitely an amazing site and it's absolutely clear that it could drive revenue. With that said, perhaps it might be like Google News, where it not only doesn't generate profits, but doesn't generate any revenue at all? Is it possible that being a major site and generating revenue might be entirely distinct?

There's no need to be nasty and sarcastic.

I've reread it a couple of times, and I fail to see the malicious intent. You assume Google Finance makes revenue. The reply simply asks, what if it doesn't?

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#152

Post by neves »

bachmeier wrote: post #40
reaperducer wrote: post #8

Google has no incentive to fix these kinds of problems. It's big enough that when someone complains that a message sent wasn't received, the intended recipient will say, "I never have problems with my Gmail account. It must be you." And the sender has to switch to Gmail to reliably communicate with the outside world. I wish this was just paranoia, but we've seen multiple discussions on HN about Google programs and po…

Rule #1 if you're applying for jobs or graduate school - Don't use gmail for your email address. Source: Led a hiring committee this year. Interview invitations and job offers went straight to the junk mail folder. Also serve as Director of Graduate Studies. Admissions and funding offers, as well as general inquiries about availability, all went straight to the junk mail folder. We're not going to change our email se…

When I try to be sure that I will get a answer, I always try to write to the company email instead of filling a web form. When Gmail sees that I wrote to a company, it won't put its emails in the spam folder.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#153

Post by Silhouette »

Nasrudith wrote: post #97
Silhouette wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the basic principle of email (other than its lack of built-in security, arguably). The problem is that certain large organisations now claim to offer an email service, but don't actually make it work properly. It might have been better for the rest of the community to block those services until they did work properly to force everyone to play by the same rules, but unfortunately we have rea…

The real issue is a preexisting "dancing hippo" one where what people want doesn't line up with other higher minded ideals like security or freedom that others presume should dominate. (Whether said ideals are right is irrelevant for better or worse - the phenomenon can happen for good or ill.) Google cares about spam and malware because the users do. If nobody gave a crap about spam they received or did their own fi…

I think most people would also care about not receiving important messages that someone was trying to send them, but since they often don't know what they're missing in this scenario, they don't tend to object or make decisions accordingly.

I have a similar concern about a lot of privacy and data processing issues. My experience has been that many people aren't OK with what happens if they are told about it, but in most cases either they didn't previously know or perhaps they suspected but didn't think there was anything they could usefully do about it short of becoming some sort of digital hermit.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#154

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

YeahSureWhyNot wrote: post #123
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Ads support is incredible. I’ve been shocked. You can tell where their real business is. You call and you get a competent human in less than a few minutes. Also, Google email deliverability is good, inbound and outbound. I’ve been running an email service and have had no problems with them, unlike Hotmail/Outlook.

I would disagree, the 'AdWords Expert' I had a pleasure of speaking with sounded like someone who started there a week ago

Interesting. I've called 3 times, to give you a sense of my sample. They seem to have an interesting program going there. It's been at least fun to play with and run experiments.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#155

Post by Kalium »

mikestew wrote: post #151
oldjokes wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to be nasty and sarcastic.

I've reread it a couple of times, and I fail to see the malicious intent. You assume Google Finance makes revenue. The reply simply asks, what if it doesn't?

It's understandable. It's very easy for people to read questions challenging them as malicious and pointedly sarcastic, implying that of course the person is wrong.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#156

Post by jvagner »

sergiosgc wrote: post #104
awinder wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a fair sentiment for an educational institution (you're not directly making money from email sending / hopefully admissions marketing doesn't have this problem), but as a candidate I'd be extremely concerned if a company I was going to work with A) couldn't deliver to gmail and B) held the view that it was everyone else's problem. As it is you're statistically leaving half the candidate pool at the door,…

Gmail's spam filters always err on the false positive side. It's always been like that. Add the opaque nature of google operations, and you can't in good faith place the deliverability burden on third parties. It's like trying to hit bullseye in darts in pitch black darkness. Best to assume gmail is flawed, which it is, as the parent poster did. At some point Google will realize the image problem and act.

I used to run my own mail server and spam assassin, and felt pretty comfortable ignoring the Spam folder.

Now that I live in a lot of Gmail accounts, the Spam folder is just another folder I have to check on a weekly basis.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#157

Post by the_jeremy »

jbergstroem wrote: post #59

I'm also one of those oldfarts that insists on hosting my private emails for me and a few friends. I've owned the ip since early 2000's and have had zero "spam"/blacklist incidents. One trend I've been noticing is that Microsoft/Outlook have regularly started to block me. I have to contact their abuse which takes a day or so to get unblocked. To date, I've done so >10 times: hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104…

I'm trying out purelymail (basically one dude's AWS hosting of email for $10/yr) and I'm having the same problem with my custom domain: google stopped having issues after the first few emails I sent got marked as "not spam", but microsoft, despite the purelymail guy filling out all the requisite forms, still eats all of my email, not even sending it to the spam folder of the addresses I'm sending to.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#159

Post by syntheticnature »

Google? Any large organization. I help a small non-profit run their site in my free time, and Google's actually been the nicest about our oldschool forwarders and Mailman lists. Despite being on no public blacklists, AT&T domains drop us at the border, with the only appeal process being via email, and I've never heard back. AOL and Yahoo? Flip a coin.

Of course, email forwarding turns out to suck, but we're just going to suck it up and move to G Suite for organizational email addresses and let folks forward from there. E-lists, OTOH, I haven't found a good integration to automate membership in the organization vs. G-Suite; perhaps it's time to just move to a forum.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#160

Post by k2enemy »

maxaf wrote: post #9

> I'm sure there is no malicious intent behind this How can anyone be sure of this? This is only one of Google’s practices that seems to follow a pervasive pattern of eroding open internet standards while presenting Google’s own proprietary implementation as somehow superior. Eventually, the open standard loses all meaning because the most popular implementation does not actually adhere to it. Meanwhile, Google reaps…

I have been thinking a bit about the anti-competitive effects of Google's behavior in the email space. It is something I'd like to research further. One interesting part of the research would be looking at email provider market share over time (or even just a current snapshot).

Does anyone have suggestions on how to go about this? My first thought was to use a password breach like Collection #1 to get a distribution of domains used, then query each domain to see which provider they are using or if they are self hosted. But I would certainly appreciate other suggestions!

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