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A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

physicstoday.scitation.org

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Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#151

Post by imtringued »

mjfl wrote: post #96
bloomer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data science is one of the few fields where a physics degree does have at least some comparative advantage. In any engineering field, a hiring manager with a choice between an engineering graduate and a physics graduate is always going to choose the engineering graduate because they have specific training in the field. Part of the myth propagated by physics departments is that learning to solve a bunch of general pro…

The real myth is that schools actually prepare you for specific problems on the job, as you have asserted. I have helped hire people before and I would say that schools do very little good specialized training. Almost everything learned in engineering school is going to be at best tangential to the problems actually experienced in industry, to the point where there is little difference between an engineering degree a…

I think that is a bit extreme but I agree with one thing. If school does not teach job related knowledge but it somehow makes it easier to learn skills on the job later on then isn't it actually just an indirect measure of motivation or intelligence?

The advantage formal education confers is merely making those stand out among the other applicants.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#152

Post by chrisseaton »

Ragib_Zaman wrote: post #147
agentofoblivion wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hasn’t been my experience. I have M.S. in physics at a shitty school and went into industry. (I didn’t fail anything, and actually had a 4.0 gpa, just didn’t want to spend more time in school). Eventually switched from material science to data science. Currently an ML research scientist at AWS. It’s been a fun journey. No one gave a shit about what I did or didn’t do in college. It might matter to HR people, whi…

I'm currently getting a Masters in CS (specialising in ML) after leaving a pure math PhD. I'd love a research type job from anywhere, let alone Amazon, but every job posting for roles with 'research' in the title says they require a PhD. Was your success a case of simply applying anyway? I know they say to apply anyway but it feels like a long shot to me. Do many of your peers have a similar background to you?

When they say they want a PhD, what they're really saying is that they want someone with a proven track record of generating and finishing their own researching projects, publishing top-tier papers, and who knows the state of the art in the field. Because you can't graduate from a PhD without that.

But if you happen to have those things without a PhD, then do apply anyway and I'm pretty sure they'll be interested.

If you don't have those things, then you may not be ready for these kinds of jobs.

There are several very successful academic and industrial CS researchers without PhDs - Simon Peyton Jones for example - so it can be done.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#153

Post by jeff_friesen »

Balgair wrote: post #86
oneepic wrote: post #41

I've also heard the opposite, that it leads to absolutely nothing and you are kind of treated like a PhD dropout, at least in the US. Just be careful, I guess, and get plenty of advice from real people who took that path (successfully or not). Oh, and a bachelor's in engineering physics seems to lead to nothing as well. Have had quite a few friends go to career fairs and every company rep lost interest as soon as the…

I'll echo this. In the US, having just a MS in Physics means that you failed your quals. Though it may not be true, this is the 'popular' perception.

I'm a physics PhD dropout. I dropped out sometime after passing my quals and oral exams. But I could not have gotten a masters without passing those. I've never heard that it's a perception that you got a masters because you didn't pass.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#154

Post by robertAngst »

thatcat wrote: post #143
robertAngst wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like any bachelors degree in the sciences should have you capable of doing any math needed. I am quite concerned that Doctors in the medical field have limited to no understanding of statistics. IMO, stats should be second nature to anyone with 200 level math courses.

I'm not sure how 200 level math courses prepare you to review anything more than the most basic experiment designs.

Because 99% of math is basic calculations.

0.9% are 100-200 level math problems.

0.1% are beyond that, but at that point, hopefully your 200 level skills have taught you enough to learn about solving that.

In my lifetime, I only had 1, beyond 200 level problem that required research on math to understand. And technically, it was optional, but I volunteered.

Everything else was algebra.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#155

Post by analog31 »

m463 wrote: post #141
analog31 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a physics undergrad student, I remember being told by advisors that a Master's was considered to be a booby prize. We were told that grad programs would only consider students who indicated an interest in a PhD. One possible reason is that grad student funding was limited, and they didn't want to waste it on students who weren't going to contribute to research. All physics grad students were fully funded.…

I kind of suspect there's a possible bias from the advisor. It could be on behalf of their employer - they have a shortage of a certain class of student at the university. or it could like engineers who too easily recommend extremely over-powered computers for friends and family not in the industry who are thinking about buying a computer.

It was pretty widespread. PhD students generally outnumbered MS students, fairly substantially. I went to a second tier program, and there were zero MS students. It wasn't a thing.

My own college didn't have a graduate program. This was based on multiple advisors having similar expectations about applying for grad school.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#156

Post by BeetleB »

AQuantized wrote: post #118
BeetleB wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The thing is, most people that get advanced degrees in physics don't stick around in the field and don't follow the traditional path. The point isn't that if you get a degree in physics, that you're doomed. Pretty much everyone I know who got a degree in physics is doing well. The point is, they are pretty much at a disadvantage (at least initially) in getting those jobs. Whichever non-physics job you find physicist…

Versatility is one of the main things offered by a physics degree. It might not be the most preferred degree in a given area you're likely to move into, but it's probably at least acceptable.

For varying definitions of acceptable. It's certainly less acceptable than an engineering degree.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#157

Post by elamje »

barry-cotter wrote: post #149
elamje wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to think online programs, even from great schools like Georgia Tech or John Hopkins, are definitely easier than on campus. Typically on campus will attract students that did very well in undergrad and are on their way to a PhD, where as online has no option to continue for a PhD.

At least sixteen and possibly twenty students from GA Tech’s OMSCS have gone on to Ph.D. programmes. The following 14 universities have OMSCS grads and CMU admitted one. National University of Singapore MIT UNSW Florida International University UBC UC-Santa Cruz Iowa State University Tokyo Institute of Technology University of Southern California Virginia Commonwealth University Auburn Georgia Tech University of New…

Not trying to discredit your evidence, but according to the GT OMSCS website, there have been 8664 students in that program. 20/8664 is less than .25%. Anyways, all I'm saying is that I'm confident that Online MSCS are not held to the same pedigree or difficulty as their on campus counterparts.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#158

Post by singingfish »

learc83 wrote: post #107
singingfish wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. If I have a bunch of applicants for a programming job, given the choice between a similarly capable computer science graduate, or a natural sciences graduate (e.g. physics, chem, bio, oddly psychology - except I'm biased I have qualifications in the last two) then I'm likely to pick the non CS qualification applicant because of the breadth of experience, and the implicit recognition that the computer…

That really depends on what you mean by "similarly capable." If we're talking a psych grad who taught themselves the equivalent of a CS degree, then sure. That's usually not the case though. Non CS grads tend to never learn the boring parts. As someone who worked professionally for almost a decade before getting my CS degree, what I learned during my degree has made a huge difference. There were so many gaps in my kn…

How about this way of putting it: For many teams you don't need many people with a strong background in CS. Yes, strong CS grads can be useful, but often it's just as more valuable to have self-taught or similar (i.e. highly motivated) people with a breadth of experience outside the realm of having the computer as the primary focus in the task - because for many programming tasks, the computer isn't really the primary focus. A relatively small proportion of strong CS grads in a team can be really useful.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#159

Post by agentofoblivion »

robertAngst wrote: post #133
bermanoid wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're covered by the parent's "besides learning to code" caveat. That's a real smooth career transition, I did it as well as a ton of friends who had the same background. ML is a particularly good fit because physics majors just LOL at the "difficult" math that trips everyone else up.

I feel like any bachelors degree in the sciences should have you capable of doing any math needed. I am quite concerned that Doctors in the medical field have limited to no understanding of statistics. IMO, stats should be second nature to anyone with 200 level math courses.

This might be overstating it a bit. Just this week I've been studying the AdaNet paper and grappling with Noise Contrastive Estimation. I agree that with a B.S. in physics you'll at least get the calculus you need, but I think a graduate level degree really deepens your understanding since it's not the first time through and you're already familiar with the basic concepts.

Regarding doctors and stats, I share your concern. But I disagree with the statement that stats should be second nature to anyone that's gone through the courses. If I've learned one thing while going deeper and deeper into stats, it's that there's a lot more nuance than I originally understood, and I'm still not there. Just when I think I have a thorough understanding of p-values and the like, I'll read some "I can't believe everyone doesn't understand THIS" blog and see that there was more to the story still again. It's hard to know what you don't know.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#160

Post by thatcat »

robertAngst wrote: post #154
thatcat wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how 200 level math courses prepare you to review anything more than the most basic experiment designs.

Because 99% of math is basic calculations. 0.9% are 100-200 level math problems. 0.1% are beyond that, but at that point, hopefully your 200 level skills have taught you enough to learn about solving that. In my lifetime, I only had 1, beyond 200 level problem that required research on math to understand. And technically, it was optional, but I volunteered. Everything else was algebra.

Stats is theory + math not just math. Maybe not even any math at all, just light programming using stats libraries. If you apply them wrong though, that's a big problem. Biological experiment design is a grad course, so 500 level. Still I agree that a doctor understand the theory.
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