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Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

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Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#151

Post by robjan »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #115
noname120 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This single quote misrepresents his opinion, here are some extra quotes: > But in a speech to Alibaba staff on Thursday, Ma said the company expected people to be ready to work 12 hours a day since it had huge commitments to its clients. > “If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when will you? Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said in the speech.

> Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said Why wouldn't you think this?

Different culture. Even here in HK, people wear their overtime as a badge of honour (if you check IG before bedtime, everyone is taking pics of their nearly empty office with a timestamp). Your standing is society is elevated by being important enough that you had to stay at work until midnight and people will say "oh they're so hard working"

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#152

Post by rayiner »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #115
noname120 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This single quote misrepresents his opinion, here are some extra quotes: > But in a speech to Alibaba staff on Thursday, Ma said the company expected people to be ready to work 12 hours a day since it had huge commitments to its clients. > “If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when will you? Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said in the speech.

> Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said Why wouldn't you think this?

> Why wouldn't you think this?

Because you’re Asian? (My dad once asked me, when he perceived I was slacking as a teenager: “Do you know how to work a sixteen hour day?” Worked fine for him—he grew up in a village in Bangladesh and sent two kids to college in the United States. Writ large, it seemed to work pretty well for Japan and Korea as well, which went from developing nations to developed nations in a few generations.

In a place like China, you have to work hard. Most do it on a farm or factory. You’re lucky if you can do it in an office.)

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#153

Post by robjan »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #82
skrebbel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a badly paid Bloomberg reporter have to gain by making me feel like Jack Ma is a mean person?

Bloomberg reporters get bonuses for writing stories that affect the market. Seriously.

Market manipulation is illegal and it would be pretty obvious if Bloomberg was participating in this activity

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#155

Post by jimmytucson »

cjw3 wrote: post #18

It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...

This is the essence of “fake news”.

Most people think fake news is reporting false information. But nowadays it’s relatively easy to fact-check something. Much more onerous is selecting facts to report on so as to tell a story that fits an agenda. It’s harder to recognize, and hey—it’s facts! What could go wrong?

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#156

Post by your-nanny »

alkonaut wrote: post #97
iliketosleep wrote: post #72

I assert that there are a great numbers of CEOs who would absolutely love their employees to be working 996 without overtime pay, only most of them won't admit it directly. We cannot expect CEOs to be paragons of virtue - part of the reason they succeed because they discard virtue in favor of profit. Having said that, the solution is not simple. In places like China, it's probably up to the government.

Exactly that is why there are laws (in China I guess not). I can't work more than 200h overtime in a year or 48h in 4weeks (meaning that after four 52h weeks I can't do anymore overtime), regardless of whether I'm paid for it or not. So after two 996 weeks my manager would be in criminal territory if I don't get two very short weeks afterwards. In my experience, this seems to actually work too. Crunch time is replace…

where are you?

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#157

Post by helloindia »

earenndil wrote: post #64
helloindia wrote: post #14

I'm bit worried about the person(or the group) manning the 996.ICU github. The page states,"This is not a political movement". But, the Chinese govt won't ignore for long, any kind of movement which maligns the reputation of China.

If the chinese gov't wants to protect their reputation, wouldn't they do better to abolish 996-type working conditions?

A recent example. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/world/asia/china-maoists-...

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#158

Post by p49k »

rqs wrote: post #138
cjw3 wrote: post #18

It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...

It will be easier to understand if you've followed the movement. Most of those companies are not forcing their employees to work 996 on paper. But if you don't, then first, your team leader will give you some hint to ask you to stay longer. If you still don't, you will be fired for any number of reasons (KPI is too low for example). Because of that, the company actually don't need to force it's employees. It just kee…

Because of that, the company actually don't need to force it's employees. It just keep giving them tasks which cannot be finished without...

This sounds exactly like the accounts of what it’s like to work as an Amazon delivery driver.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#159

Post by acct1771 »

p49k wrote: post #158
rqs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be easier to understand if you've followed the movement. Most of those companies are not forcing their employees to work 996 on paper. But if you don't, then first, your team leader will give you some hint to ask you to stay longer. If you still don't, you will be fired for any number of reasons (KPI is too low for example). Because of that, the company actually don't need to force it's employees. It just kee…

Because of that, the company actually don't need to force it's employees. It just keep giving them tasks which cannot be finished without... This sounds exactly like the accounts of what it’s like to work as an Amazon delivery driver.

Or a drive thru employee.

Or an Uber driver trying to make minimum wage.

Hm.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#160

Post by acct1771 »

rqs wrote: post #150
drukenemo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice comments, but may I suggest that you check your spellings before posting? Lots of things I had to interpret what you meant to say based on mispellings.

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker, that may lead to some problem because Chinese grammar can be very different to English. Maybe I should start to use grammarly from now on. Sum up the post: 1. What Jack Ma is trying to do, is equalizing Personal strive and overwork (for him). 2. In China, company have many ways to force employees stay in long hour without literally say so. For example "When boss don't leave, you don't…

Think twice about Grammarly, especially if you're a professional...

You're doing fine for nonnative, just still mildly noticeable.

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