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Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

bbc.com

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Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#151

Post by founderling »

tomhoward wrote: post #145
founderling wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! The link says nitpicking is "Looking for small or unimportant errors". That is certainly not what I want to do. The press is full of articles about this "First photo of a black hole". This seems to imply that it is somehow important. But so far, I fail to see what is important about it. So my question still stands. I would really like to know in what sense this is the first image of a black hole. And if there…

Is anyone knowledgeable about the project calling it a "photo" (i.e., the term you used) or are they calling it (more accurately) an "image"? My take in response to your original question is that it seems like nitpicking or armchair quarterbacking or something else related to that. I'm always wary of succumbing to the "appeal to authority" fallacy, but this does seem like a case where all the experts and leading figu…

Well, what would be a "first image"? There have been countless images depicting black holes since forever:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=black+hole&t=h_&ia=images&iax=imag...

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#152

Post by theoh »

nagVenkat wrote: post #105
killjoywashere wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, so just so everyone is clear, the point between parent and grandparent is Andrew Chael seems to have written a hell of a lot more code than Katie Bouman, for a lot longer * achael 566 commits 850,275 ++ 131,044 -- * klbouman 90 commits 2,410 ++ 1,265 -- However, at least at the level of reading the commit messages, Katie's are pretty math heavy: "fixed bug in the fake briggs weighting" "starting to fix chirp prob…

To add some more context... of the 850k lines, 500k lines are mostly models and machine generated code. Andrew is definitely smart (smarter than an average HN user) and his code is very important but I have never seen so much display of misogyny and sexism against a woman scientist. She never took any credit and clearly said that this was a team effort. Some of the top posts on reddit are trying to mischaracterize th…

One of the few redeeming features of the HN conventions of civility and seriousness is that we don't have Reddit's problems and we don't need to talk about Reddit.

But what could possibly qualify you to say that "Andrew is definitely smart (smarter than an average HN user) and his code is very important"?

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#153

Post by telesilla »

bubblewrap wrote: post #113
telesilla wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I felt isolated in STEM 20 years ago was the very lack of role models. That's changing and I know for a fact, as I interact with young women, that seeing another woman in action as a professional in STEM helps them feel there is a place for them. It definitely fosters a sense of encouragement to pursue higher dreams.

What prevents you from taking a man as a role model?

I do! And many of them. But imagine you have a strong, particular physical trait and you are in a room with others who do not share that trait. Usually you forget about it, but sometimes it matters because you have to use a different bathroom, or you don't get easily invited out for drinks because of tension or maybe you don't speak the language well, or maybe there are perceived cultural barriers. If you saw someone on television or in the news about someone with your trait and excelling in your field, imagine how delighted you would feel! That somehow, after all you do belong in that field. It's a natural human response to want to feel part of a community, and that's hard to do when you are a singular type of a clearly-visible trait.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#154

Post by dmurray »

melling wrote: post #3
romanovcode wrote: post #2

How come she is everywhere on the internet but not at the presentation panel on live conference that was yesterday? Jeez why the downvotes? It's a legitimate question I had.

“ 29-year-old computer scientist” She’s not an astronomer?

Astronomy is about computers to the same extent that computer science is about telescopes, as I think Dijkstra said.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#155

Post by pbhjpbhj »

raphman wrote: post #134
bubblewrap wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevents you from taking a man as a role model?

A 'role model' is someone who shares your background and is successful in an area of interest where you would like to participate/contribute (science, art, sports, politics, ...) . It's someone who demonstrates that 'someone like you' can be successful, too. Therefore, the closer this role model is to your inherent and unchangeable properties (age, sex/gender, origin, social class), the more it can inspire you. Surel…

>the closer this role model is to your inherent and unchangeable properties (age, sex/gender, origin, social class), the more it can inspire you. //

Citation?

I call bunkum on that. TBH it seems both sexist and racist to say one can only be inspired by people of one's own characteristics (in science).

In this case the sex and race are irrelevant to Bouman's contribution AFAICT.

If you were talking about someone like Payne-Gaposchkin, then she overcame a deal of sexism, fair enough.

The whole she did it and had ovaries, omg, seems so condescending and unnecessary.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#157

Post by SiempreViernes »

black_puppydog wrote: post #129
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 6 authors for that paper, the way you linked it suggested it's solely by her; are the other authors listed honorarily? Similarly the title suggests she worked alone on the project. Which seems exceedingly unlikely given the need for telescope time and computing time and the wide range of disciplines I imagine the project covers ... did she work alone. That must be almost unique in experimentalism nowadays?

It depends a bit on the scientific field, but in mine (computer vision, which this was also published in) the first author is the "main" author, usually doing most if not all the "ground work", then you have collaborators and co-authors, and finally the supervisors (in the case of the PhD student that she was at the time). It is becoming more common to see papers with "Author1 , Author2 , Author3..." lists, where the…

I'd argue that in practice science is more of a pile of giants.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#158

Post by hurryskurry »

dalemyers wrote: post #44

I've read comments on Hacker News for many years, often finding them a useful source of additional information and insight into details from whatever the linked piece is. Sometimes these threads are full of only subtly veiled hatred and leave me with a feeling of disgust. This thread is one of those. There have been countless threads over the years where a man gets the credit for something a team has worked on and th…

In much of STEM women are basically at parity. With computer science, and engineering being obvious exceptions. Further there is a study which has shown that in countries with greater gender equality women choose STEM occupations less. Overall women get more graduate degrees than men and have been for the last ten years.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#159

Post by pbhjpbhj »

scott_s wrote: post #132
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 6 authors for that paper, the way you linked it suggested it's solely by her; are the other authors listed honorarily? Similarly the title suggests she worked alone on the project. Which seems exceedingly unlikely given the need for telescope time and computing time and the wide range of disciplines I imagine the project covers ... did she work alone. That must be almost unique in experimentalism nowadays?

Papers are routinely credited to their first author. Everyone understand the co-authors also took part. She also clearly credits the rest of the team in the posted BBC article.

Now we just need the BBC not to wet themselves because a woman #gasp# can do science.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#160

Post by nagVenkat »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #147
nagVenkat wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add some more context... of the 850k lines, 500k lines are mostly models and machine generated code. Andrew is definitely smart (smarter than an average HN user) and his code is very important but I have never seen so much display of misogyny and sexism against a woman scientist. She never took any credit and clearly said that this was a team effort. Some of the top posts on reddit are trying to mischaracterize th…

I don't see what you're seeing, I see news headlines and comments that are suggesting Dr Bouman worked alone. They just need "a" instead of "the", or "lead" if she's responsible as leader of a team. For me, I am slightly primed by the "Apollo code" story: the claim was (paraphrasing) "this programmer created all the code for the Apollo programme" with an image of a person standing with folders of printouts stacked up…

I can not believe you have written the last sentence without any sense of irony. We are just discussing about how stupid the LOC metric is and how most of the LOC Andrew write were machine generated. People were also saying that her commits were more math heavy. Anyway if you actually believe that there is a secret feminist agenda, I don’t think I can say anything that will change your mind.
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