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8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

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Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#151

In his age category.

He's currently at the same level of Praggnanandhaa[1], world's youngest Grandmaster, one year after he started his FIDE rating [2]. It's truly impressive being able to progress as fast as this, from what seems to be still a very basic and informal training. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameshbabu_Praggnanandhaa [2] https://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?event=25059530

Praggnanandhaa is actually the fourth youngest GM of all time and the third youngest right now, but still, it's impressive. There's no guarantees that this kid will progress at the same rate, but don't let that take away from the feel-good aspect of the story.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can we, as a society, support our future during its most vulnerable time (childhood)? How is it possible that we still have homeless children in a country with so much wealth? The argument goes like this: > Because why should I care for someone else's child and why should I shell out money because someone decided to have children even though they shouldn't have ?

Taking it further, it's because when we offer goodwill, we want it to have strings attached. When you support someone else through charitable donations, you want certain restrictions on it. For example, I don't want to support some kids' religious education, because I think religion is a form of handcuffs. When we give to a homeless person, we don't want it used for drugs. In general, we want our giving to support ou…

I don't see anything wrong with wanting conditions attached to handouts, everyone has their own moral system. I see nothing wrong with helping support two children whose parents have been unable to earn due to injury / illness. If a single mum with 9 kids has a history of having more children while demanding hand outs then I'm not do keen.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#153

Title is very misleading as it implies he was competing against adults. "8 year old refugee better than any other 8 year old" is a far less interesting story than the implied chess prodigy.

I don't think so - if I read about an 8 year old winning a tennis championship, I'd assume they're playing with other kids.

The interesting and impressive part comes not only from the achievement itself (winning the championship) but doing it despite their situation and past (refugee, homelessness, etc)

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#154
post #153

Title is very misleading as it implies he was competing against adults. "8 year old refugee better than any other 8 year old" is a far less interesting story than the implied chess prodigy.

I don't think so - if I read about an 8 year old winning a tennis championship, I'd assume they're playing with other kids. The interesting and impressive part comes not only from the achievement itself (winning the championship) but doing it despite their situation and past (refugee, homelessness, etc)

Tennis is a physical sport where it would be virtually impossible for a preteen to beat an adult. Chess is an intellectual exercise.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#155

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

There is a relationship between great success and hard childhood, I think PG for ex wrote a tweet about this around last weekend. Also: it's terrible to tell a young kid "you are very talented" and similar; positive encouragement is good but it's better to praise effort.

> Also: it's terrible to tell a young kid "you are very talented" and similar; positive encouragement is good but it's better to praise effort.

Whether this is true or not is controversial; it's primarily based on research which has many supporters, but which has also failed replication despite many attempts. See Carol Dweck's wiki page (including the "criticism" section) for more.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#156

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

[deleted]

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#157

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

I recently read Searching for Bobby Fisher and Joshua Waitzkin's childhood seemed intense, but not broken. Would you consider him an exception or is that level of intensity itself dysfunctional in your view?

I do agree that integrity and sportsmanship - along with the game's beauty - should be placed higher than defeating opponents and that it often isn't. At some point this may just be the nature of competing at the highest levels, but early scholastic chess shouldn't be that point.

Perhaps part of it is cultural. I grew up playing in Russia as a kid (I showed promise, but didn't go nearly as far as you). Chess was deeply woven into the culture and into my family. I have warm memories of an inspiring game that only encouraged development of integrity and perseverance. I've been hoping my child gets into it. He did, but watching chess in the U.S. leaves me cold. Obsession with ratings, winning, trophies, pragmatism, and plain cheating at ages when these kids should be imagining themselves as honorable warriors is disheartening. I try to guide him through it - and point out the exceptions - but it always feels like swimming against the tide.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#158
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so - if I read about an 8 year old winning a tennis championship, I'd assume they're playing with other kids. The interesting and impressive part comes not only from the achievement itself (winning the championship) but doing it despite their situation and past (refugee, homelessness, etc)

Tennis is a physical sport where it would be virtually impossible for a preteen to beat an adult. Chess is an intellectual exercise.

Still, I don't think the title is misleading. If he was playing against adults, I'd explicitly include that in the title because it's majorly impressive.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#159

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

I recently read Searching for Bobby Fisher and Joshua Waitzkin's childhood seemed intense, but not broken. Would you consider him an exception or is that level of intensity itself dysfunctional in your view? I do agree that integrity and sportsmanship - along with the game's beauty - should be placed higher than defeating opponents and that it often isn't. At some point this may just be the nature of competing at the…

I'm not all that familiar with Waitzkin's story. Pretty sure I met him back him in the day, but we certainly didn't talk about this stuff back then. And I haven't read that book. If you can give me some specific events, I could offer an opinion. That said, I'm not certain how much of a say he had (or profits he shared) in the book/movie based on him. Purely a gut reaction but I suspect there was at least some garden variety exploitation going on.

"At some point this may just be the nature of competing at the highest levels, but early scholastic chess shouldn't be that point."

Unfortunately, a little-discussed aspect of top level chess is that the only real way to be a contender for the world championships, especially these days, is to start young. Chess mastery is like fluency in a language - you can learn it at any age, but to attain the absolute top levels of performance you need to be a native speaker. This is probably why the cult of prodigies continues despite its downsides. In chess, music, dance, etc. people just love seeing superhuman performance.

"Perhaps part of it is cultural. I grew up playing in Russia"

I think you're right about this. Chess culture in the US is absolutely, positively terrible compared to other countries. I know that it's much better/healthier in Europe. I'm aware that it's a major cultural thing in Russia so I have to believe that it's better over there. Almost like a mental martial art, as opposed to whatever it is in the US.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#160

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

I recently read Searching for Bobby Fisher and Joshua Waitzkin's childhood seemed intense, but not broken. Would you consider him an exception or is that level of intensity itself dysfunctional in your view? I do agree that integrity and sportsmanship - along with the game's beauty - should be placed higher than defeating opponents and that it often isn't. At some point this may just be the nature of competing at the…

Don’t forget that Searching for Bobby Fisher was written by Waitzkin’s father and almost certainly is bending the reality to the story he wants to tell/image he wants to project.
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