The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#151

Post by eropple » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:32 PM UTC

crumpets wrote: post #135

icelancer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Societal fabric isn’t going to be solved through anything other than effort on the part of individuals. Very much indeed. We largely get the world we collectively bargain for.

It’s what we collectively create, not bargain. There is nobody on the other side of society to “bargain” with.

Sure there is. There is a huge swath of society whose precepts revolve around "fuck you, I got mine." What are politics but bargains between those two positions?

(They want to be they; we can only oblige.)

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#152

Post by a1369209993 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

thow16161 wrote: post #141

thow16161 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any unexpected expense can knock you down when you're on the edge. Unexpected expenses are how people become homeless. I am friends with a camgirl who is a prime example of this. In her case, she made a go of full-time camming, and thought she was doing well. What she didn't understand is that the site she worked for paid her as a contractor and withheld nothing. She never thought much about taxes, and all her previo…

That reminds me: Does anybody know of any US crowdfunding sites that are not hostile to sex workers? That seems unlikely after FOSTA, but it does not hurt to ask, and I figure this would be the place to do it.

Bitcoin? It doesn't really have a crowdfunding site per se, but "people who moral guardians hate" is basically the number two reason for its existence, right after "people who lawmakers/financial regulators hate".

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#153

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #104

jackpirate wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US provides acute treatment for the destitute (i.e. we'll fix your broken bone), but I don't think we'll provide chronic treatment for the destitute. I've never heard of a destitute person getting free chemo or hospice for example.

This is incorrect. Medicaid provides for health care of all kinds including chemo and hospice care. There is some evidence that the quality of care isn't as good as private insurance, but there is definitely coverage of some kind for the items you mention.

[deleted]

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#154

Post by thow16161 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

a1369209993 wrote: post #152

thow16161 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me: Does anybody know of any US crowdfunding sites that are not hostile to sex workers? That seems unlikely after FOSTA, but it does not hurt to ask, and I figure this would be the place to do it.

Bitcoin? It doesn't really have a crowdfunding site per se, but "people who moral guardians hate" is basically the number two reason for its existence, right after "people who lawmakers/financial regulators hate".

Sure, but bitcoin may be hard for her grandparents friends at church to figure out, for example. Heck, I've worked for tech companies, and I can't figure it out. Gofundme is comparatively easy to explain.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#155

Post by siggen » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

thow16161 wrote: post #141

thow16161 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any unexpected expense can knock you down when you're on the edge. Unexpected expenses are how people become homeless. I am friends with a camgirl who is a prime example of this. In her case, she made a go of full-time camming, and thought she was doing well. What she didn't understand is that the site she worked for paid her as a contractor and withheld nothing. She never thought much about taxes, and all her previo…

That reminds me: Does anybody know of any US crowdfunding sites that are not hostile to sex workers? That seems unlikely after FOSTA, but it does not hurt to ask, and I figure this would be the place to do it.

Probably best to talk to a tax advisor-- and I am not one. I think the first time you owe a lot in taxes you are not assessed a penalty (if you keep owing every year, you are). This filing season is also exceptional due to tax bracket changes last year.

She can pay in installments vs the entire sum at once: https://www.irs.gov/payments/payment-plans-installment-agree...

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#156

Post by repsilat » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:42 PM UTC

analogyexpert wrote: post #138

repsilat wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "literally", which has evolved so much that the dictionary has literally changed its definition to indicate that it could be used metaphorically Just as surprising to me is people saying the word "silently" aloud. As though they don't know what it originally meant!

I think it requires some mental gymnastics to say that you shouldn't be surprised that a term that etymologically means 'according to the direct and actual meaning of the words themselves' could be reappropriated to mean, in effect, the opposite - literally almost nothing, a blank hyperbole - taking more purpose in its effect on the rhythm of a sentence, than from any of its dictionary definitions.

In the circumstances when "literally" is used figuratively it is an intensifier. It is never used to mean "figuratively".

Compare "really" (which funnily enough etymologically points towards meaning "literally" or "truly" as well.)

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#157

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

crumpets wrote: post #139

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We typically refer to the rest as an extended family, but I guess you could call my concern as one for having an immediate family. Of course, different cultures have different ideas about all of this (I’m specifically biased by growing up in an American nuclear family unit far away from extended family connections with no help during financial difficulties).

I’m an American and I sure as hell don’t refer to my parents as my “extended family” even though I’m married with children.

Neither do I, even if they aren’t around anymore, but that is hardly the point grand parent was making.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#158

Post by sangnoir » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

johnminter wrote: post #112

This is an important distinction. CBS reports [1] that a $500 emergency expense would put most Americans in debt. Our consumer-focused economy with easy credit lures people into purchases that they cannot afford. Many spend without careful thought and purchase homes, electronic devices, automobiles, and college educations that they cannot afford to repay. My wife and I had little savings when I got out of graduate sc…

> He concluded that poor management of what they had was a bigger problem.

Counseling works for broke families - not poor ones. 6-months of savings and all the financial discipline in the world won't do you any good when you get a medical emergency that costs 5-years worth of family-income and leaves one spouses unable to work (or both! Caretakers are expensive). You can't budget your way out of poverty.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#159

Post by cableshaft » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:52 PM UTC

tedmiston wrote: post #58

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #12

> I often hear my friends say, “I’m too poor” when they’re frustrated about what they can’t have. Maybe it’s a trip they can’t afford, a renovation they want to start right now or a pretty pair of shoes they spotted in a shop window. I'm pretty sure I've literally never heard someone describe that as being "poor". Maybe this is some regional language thing?

I haven't heard it as much in the midwest. "I can't afford x right now" is what I hear more commonly. To me poverty has a longer-term temporal component vs having surplus money and choosing to allocate it to different optional goods or activities.

I'm from the Midwest. I'm guilty of saying it. But that being said, 1) there was a time where I was seriously contemplating declaring bankruptcy, so I think that qualifies under the authors definition of 'poor', and 2) I don't see the value in making this distinction of 'poor' and 'broke' anyway. Sure there's a matter of degree of difference involved, but it just sounds like making an argument of semantics.

If the general usage is using your word wrong, invent a new word for it and popularize it, or just be more specific. Meaning of words gets co-opted and morphed by the public all the time anyway. I don't see this author creating any serious movement towards reclaiming the word "poor" for what they think it really means.

Re: The difference between ‘broke’ and ‘poor’

#160

Post by a1369209993 » Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

thow16161 wrote: post #154

a1369209993 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin? It doesn't really have a crowdfunding site per se, but "people who moral guardians hate" is basically the number two reason for its existence, right after "people who lawmakers/financial regulators hate".

Sure, but bitcoin may be hard for her grandparents friends at church to figure out, for example. Heck, I've worked for tech companies, and I can't figure it out. Gofundme is comparatively easy to explain.

True. There's probably a business opprotunity in there somewhere for a payment processor with a policy of never disputing chargebacks, since that's the main excuse used to kill crowdfunding/patronage platforms that don't play along with moral guardians.