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Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

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151–160 of 369 posts

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#151
It always seems any American that is against Universal Healthcare quickly changes their tune as soon as they or their loved ones are hit with bankruptingly large bills for things they have no control over.

What a shame they can't see outsides themselves and realize they're only an inch away from financial ruin.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the solution? More than 42% went all in with the constraint being their personal assets. If that constraint was lifted, then what would the next constraint be? Obviously the additional assets would come from other people, and probably not voluntarily (which is a different issue), but what would be the limiting factor then? Also, I assume the new pool of assets would be available not just to the 42% that we…

How about if we have a single entity who pays doctors and hospitals fair and reasonable rates, we fire hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats we don't need, and we fund it all out of general revenues, saving roughly 2 trillion dollars per year, while at the same time improving life expectancy and other health outcomes?

For sure, there's all kinds of ways to make money go further. But there still has to be a rule for a constraint.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#153
post #126

This is unfortunate, but what do you want to do, have the government pay for it? Maybe there are a lot of people with cancer who will get better and live for X number of years. But many people are going to die in a year or two and we would just end up spending millions of dollars on them, essentially wasting the government's money. How much money would you spend to increase someone's life by a minute, an hour, a day,…

What do other wealthy states with populations who generally prefer their healthcare system to one like ours (the US) do? That'd be a good place to start looking. Plenty of examples. Like, all of them, pretty much.

> The solution isn't free healthcare for everyone.

I mean....

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#154

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

I always thought this was the way to go. People routinely punch the numbers to figure out if they can 'afford' to have a child, why is it so strange to do the same for end of life?

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#155
post #83
post #5

More than 42% of 9.5M people with cancer drained life's assets within 2 years in the US .

Yes, but bankruptcy due to health reasons is actually quite common in Canada as well. Why? If you’re sick enough you can’t work or pay your bills so you go bankrupt. It’s not just healthcare costs. Survey research commissioned by the Canadian government found that despite having a government-run health system, medical reasons (including uninsured expenses), were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by approximate…

Not sure for Canada, but in many EU countries, if you are employed, you will keep receiving a large percentage of your salary when on extended sick leave, mostly paid by social security after the first few days.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Paid-sick-days-and-sick-...

My mother was on sick leave for many months for breast cancer and the illness had a relatively small impact in terms of family finances.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#156

This makes me so angry at doctors.

I understand the frustration, but I think the anger should be directed at inefficiencies in the market. You can examine UPMC's Charge Description Master File for their different hospitals, and the cost for Y-90 Sirsphere is $222406.00 in Pittsburgh and $56687.00 in Erie ($150,000 and 2 hours drive difference). Not bashing UPMC, but this probably applies to hospitals around the country. These hospitals have huge costs…

"You can examine UPMC's Charge Description Master File for their different hospitals, and the cost for Y-90 Sirsphere is $222406.00 in Pittsburgh and $56687.00 in Erie ($150,000 and 2 hours drive difference)."

And you know that the charge master prices are pretty much phantasy and nobody knows what the insurance rates are. They should have to open up all pricing. There should be no hidden negotiated prices and all historical prices should be published.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#157
Maybe it will not be easy to read this: In this particular case the US can learn something from past socialist regimes - or from Germany and many other western countries, which already learned, that OBLIGATORY state medical insurance solves such issues. It is not the ideal solution, but the best compromise available. Who would like to get cancer and fight with private insurance company while being ill?

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#158
post #23

"But none of these is her most gnawing, ever present concern. That would be the convoluted medical bills that fill multiple binders, depleted savings accounts that destroy early retirement plans and so, so many phone calls with insurers and medical providers." Is it like this in other OECD countries? I ask because I'm told that we in America have "the best health care system in the world."

The administrative/insurance side of American healthcare is probably one of the worst, if not the worst in the developed world. But the quality of the care itself (the actual treatments) is very high, probably one of the very best. I think the American health care is especially good in terms of treatment availability: many drugs are simply not available in other countries (or are available but not covered).

Some people are genuinely concerned than touching the former (administrative side) will result in lowering the level of the latter (quality/availability of care, drugs, etc.). That it's the inherent high cost of the current US system that somehow makes it so good in terms of availability/quality of care. I disagree, but can somehow understand the line of thought.

EDIT: I have no idea to what extent care is really better in the US than elsewhere, but know first hand of someone who had to pay for interferon out of pocket in Japan because it was not yet covered at that time. It's not rare for the newest US drugs to take many years to cross the Pacific ocean...

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#159
post #66

This is a 2019 article covering a study that covers 2000 to 2012 and doesn't mention the Affordable Care Act signed into law in 2010. Insurance landscape has changed quite a bit in the USA since ACA, which makes this not very interesting. What I would be interested in is repeating the study now and comparing results.

I would expect the results to be no different - the article was talking about people who already have insurance. I've been through the incredible medical-bill maze that results from cancer treatment since then; it's just the same. The ACA was explicitly designed to perpetuate the current insurance system, why would you expect the situation to have improved?

Before ACA, there were lifetime benefit limits. After ACA, there is no limit, so it will have greatly changed the situation that people facing years of very expensive treatment faced. Now, you are spending a max of $10k per year on in network providers, or whatever your annual out of pocket max is. Before the insurance company had the option of telling you that you've maxed out your benefits and you're on your own, and/or not offering health insurance coverage for you in the future period.

The removal of lifetime benefits, ability to deny pre-existing conditions, and setting a maximum range between the lowest premium that can be offered and highest premium that can be offered greatly improved access to health insurance benefits for everyone. At the expense of making it more expensive for the young and healthy, but obviously someone has to pay, and we as a nation don't want it to be via taxes.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#160
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malpractice insurance takes a surprising % of doctor's income. Delivering babies is particularly expensive. It reached the point that the doctor that delivered my babies no longer carries malpractice insurance.

Did he proactively disclose that to you or did it just come up in conversation? Attorneys in many states aren't required to have malpractice insurance but must disclose to clients if their malpractice insurance doesn't meet some minimum standard. Edit to add that I also suspect the health insurance companies are a big part of driving up the malpractice insurance costs. For example, if there's some sort of error in a…

She not he.

When my daughter had her babies I recommended my doctor who was pretty young when she delivered my babies. In fact - we were both pregnant together. She was a couple of months behind me. My doctor notified up front that she did not have malpractice insurance.

In fact the insurance situation is pretty hard on working mothers. I know 2 doctors who gave up medicine when they had their children. They wanted to work part time and the insurance structure does not support part time work.

A generation earlier - my father was a family practitioner who gave up delivering babies because the insurance was so high. He had to specialize in internal medicine. That is why we no longer have family practitioners in the US.

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