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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#151

Post by bloomca »

sethhochberg wrote: post #24
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

Florida is a perfect storm of retirees who should have had their licenses revoked years ago, car-centric exurban non-planning, big trucks as culture, and weather so hot and prone to unexpected storms that few people cycle for anything other than recreation and thus most riders are seen as ridiculous wannabe racers, or just some drunk who lost their drivers' license. Everything is spread out and connected by 6-lane di…

> Florida is a perfect storm of retirees who should have had their licenses revoked years ago

Ha, that is so true – I live in a town with average age of 55, and indeed, a lot of people drive the way they would not get the license under any circumstances. I was at local DMV, and there are bunch of (old) people who moved here recently, and they need to get a new license. They don't have to pass a drive test, just a knowledge test. Still, they fail at least several times in a row (I heard about 5+, 3+ attempts).

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#152

Post by dsfyu404ed »

ryantgtg wrote: post #142
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just slap a 25 sign on a stretch of road where 90% of people feel like 30 is reasonable 90% of the time and expect people to go 25. Without Orwellian enforcement that does not work, not enough people will comply with the new limit. You need to make people actually feel like 25 is the right speed to go. Allowing on street parking on one side (less space for lanes) planting trees on the sidewalk (visually nar…

In California, you literally can't "slap a 25 sign on a stretch of road where 90% of people feel like 30 is reasonable 90% of the time." That would be a violation of the vehicle code, which states that speeds are determined by the 85th percentile of operating speeds.

As far as "laws CA has that most places don't have" that seems like one of the few reasonable ones. (and I say that as someone who has spent way to much time reading up on traffic and vehicle speed related things). In addition to delivering reasonable speed limits in most places it prevents towns from lowering speed limits in key areas to enable law enforcement rent seeking and probably saves countless hours of arguing over speed limits in local government.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#153

Post by bloomca »

ams6110 wrote: post #144
ovi256 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>grade crossings Grade crossings are everywhere in the Netherlands, but bikes have the right of way, and drivers and pedestrians don't, and that's also how the justice system judges things. In most US states afaik, the legal incentives are definitely not there to care about bikers.

Cars turning right across another lane of traffic (the bike lane) is the problem. It's just a very accident-prone way to arrange the lanes. The reality is in America drivers are not accustomed to bikes passing them on the right when they are turning right. It certainly wasn't part of anything I learned in driver's training (though that was quite a while ago). I honestly could not tell you who has the right of way in…

> The reality is in America drivers are not accustomed to bikes passing them on the right when they are turning right. It certainly wasn't part of anything I learned in driver's training

In modern Oregon's DMV driver's book they specify this case and tell you that they have the right of way, they also include this question in the test. Not sure how it helps on the roads to cyclers, but at least they teach about it.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#154

Post by allemagne »

dfxm12 wrote: post #110
gdubs wrote: post #30

I pretty much assume that unless I make eye contact with a driver and get some kind of acknowledgement, I don’t trust that they see me. By far the closest calls I’ve had are stop signs where someone in an SUV stops, doesn’t look right or left (or worse, doesn’t look up from their phone), and then just goes. I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane; drivers are almo…

I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane; When driving, I hate when cyclists don't take up the whole lane when they are supposed to (and where I live, they are supposed to unless there's a bike lane). It creates dangerous ambiguous situations when the lane belongs to a biker, but the biker doesn't take it. Pulling over to the side says "go ahead, and pass me" (whet…

This is why putting up with the potential road rage is the right answer to OP's dilemma.

As a cyclist you must be noticeable and predictable at all times.

Put flashing lights and reflectors anywhere you can. Make turn signals with your hand. When you take up a lane, do it confidently and clearly communicate your intent. Take it all seriously and "officially" and drivers will be forced to pick up on it.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#155

Post by bobl »

tapland wrote: post #133
rmdashrfstar wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what you mean about the social aspects of Sweden not being peachy? Many people in the US describe Sweden as a utopia for Americans looking for a new foreign country to call home... any input on that sentiment would be appreciated.

You do not talk to others in public. You do not meet new people at the gym, at bars, at anywhere. If you are lucky you work in a small startup-office where employees go drink after work on fridays and where you can get to know them. American tourists can be heard over all other sound in the metro- and trainstations in Stockholm because the natural level of noise-making is so different.

To be fair I think it is worse these days than it could be. Over the last 50 years or so Sweden developed a form of egalitarian individualism, which has made social interaction a bit peculiar. But today there is rising inequality which has turned some of that individualism into egoism. At the same time there are a lot of people moving in or out of cities, breaking up friend groups and leaving small towns to their faith. Swedes do quite well socially when it comes to things like non profit clubs. Now everyone is trying to be "international" which most Swedes aren't good at as they are far too concerned about what other people think.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#156

Post by towaway1138 »

I recently moved to a city with "excellent" bicycle infrastructure. Contrary to what I might have imagined, this seems to make things more dangerous for all. The extra lanes, markings, lights, and signs increase distraction, making it harder to concentrate on what actually matters--people.

In addition, almost no bicyclists actually drive lawfully here. It's typical to see them going the wrong way down streets, blowing stop signs, red lights, and crosswalks. And often when a rather nice bike lane is at hand, they'll choose to ride down the sidewalk instead, endangering pedestrians.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but as a pedestrian, I fear bicyclists more than cars.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#157

Post by magduf »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #111
justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

It's not the bumpers. Bumpers haven't moved much since the 90s. If anything they've moved up a little on cars and stayed static on everything smaller than a 3/4 ton truck. It's the hood/grill styling that's changed. Every SUV these days has a tall grill and hood. Even cars have become taller. It's because of the safety and fuel economy arms race. The front bodywork is one of the few things the manufacturers can sculp…

Actually, what I've read is that modern cars are much better for getting hit as a pedestrian than those 90s small cars. Remember, Europe has very different safety regulations than the US, and manufacturers aren't going to make different cars for both markets, so because of Europe's pedestrian-safety regulations, modern cars are designed to do less damage to pedestrians when they hit them. They look worse because of the big grill (talking about cars here, not big pickups; they don't sell pickups in Europe), but it's all plastic and crumples, and it prevents the pedestrian from being picked up and slammed into the windshield, which is what would happen with that 90s Miata.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#158

Post by Tiktaalik »

justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

New trucks are insane. You can't see a small child infront at all. Honestly I'm shocked its legal.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#159

Post by magduf »

ams6110 wrote: post #148
magduf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move? And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices…

The US dwarfs Sweden in size and cultural diversity. There are many places to live in the US that are as nice or nicer than Sweden. There are many places that are not.

There is no place in the US that beats Sweden on metrics like quality of life and healthcare affordability. These things are nationally driven, and there are no US states with socialized healthcare.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#160

Post by pcsanwald »

cletus wrote: post #139

Weird. This article doesn't mention what (IMHO) is one of the biggest factors impacting pedestrian and cyclist safety: the ability in almost all of the US to turn right at red lights. I live in NYC where this is illegal in the five boroughs. Weirdly I've met more than a few people who live here who didn't know this. You will come across drivers who don't know this too occasionally who'll give you attitude if you walk…

I would upvote this by 1000 if I could. I lived in the bay area for 2 years, and one way streets + right on red is a recipe for disaster for pedestrians because drivers will never look to their right.

Interestingly, people in SF rarely jaywalk, and I wonder if it's related to this.

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