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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#151

Post by eitally »

s3r3nity wrote: post #131
userbinator wrote: post #110

Having worked at large companies before, I'm almost certain that more than one person working on the product raised the point "this has a microphone, why isn't it documented?" or "this has privacy implications", but was silenced. (Or it could be that everyone working at Google has been carefully chosen to not have such concerns; I do get that feeling sometimes too.)

I remember someone in a recent HN comment thread mentioning that, as an ex-Googler, Google today feels like Microsoft under Ballmer. So while I agree with you, it _also_ wouldn't surprise me if someone raised the concern, but that person was on a different / more silo'ed team and therefore the concern never reached the execution stage. Herego too many management layers and/or nodes of entropy for communication. But t…

As a current googler, this seems like the most plausible explanation. Entirely likely that the person who noticed didn't actually know which other team to escalate to....

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#152

Post by [deleted] »

natch wrote: post #143
vegardx wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be connected to a network in order to work. The will even happily do self-check without network access - something I realized when I wanted to mute a self-check only to find out that I had done some network changes. Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. Given that these devices are battery powered and meant to last for years on a single charge you can imagine how often they actually connect t…

>Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. What is that? Google's not helping.

[deleted]

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#153

Post by balabaster »

s3r3nity wrote: post #131
userbinator wrote: post #110

Having worked at large companies before, I'm almost certain that more than one person working on the product raised the point "this has a microphone, why isn't it documented?" or "this has privacy implications", but was silenced. (Or it could be that everyone working at Google has been carefully chosen to not have such concerns; I do get that feeling sometimes too.)

I remember someone in a recent HN comment thread mentioning that, as an ex-Googler, Google today feels like Microsoft under Ballmer. So while I agree with you, it _also_ wouldn't surprise me if someone raised the concern, but that person was on a different / more silo'ed team and therefore the concern never reached the execution stage. Herego too many management layers and/or nodes of entropy for communication. But t…

Or was "yes, yes, we'll add a story to the backlog to add it to the specs" and it just flat out got forgotten. I've seen this happen so many times where I've been the one to raise the issue and because I've passed it off, I've forgotten about it only to circle back around 2 months later when someone says "Oh, we need to do this" and I say "I raised this 2 months ago, I thought X had put it in the backlog."

And when you go looking, sure enough, there it is in the backlog down in Priority "We'll get to it when we get to it, after all these other more important things that needed to be completed by last week."

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#154

Post by gduplessy »

natch wrote: post #143
vegardx wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be connected to a network in order to work. The will even happily do self-check without network access - something I realized when I wanted to mute a self-check only to find out that I had done some network changes. Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. Given that these devices are battery powered and meant to last for years on a single charge you can imagine how often they actually connect t…

>Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. What is that? Google's not helping.

Stick, written weirdly.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#155

Post by beatgammit »

netwanderer3 wrote: post #107

I love Google for the service values they provide, but if this were to come from another company then I might have believed it was in fact an error. Privacy has always been an important factor when people consider any Google products, and they are fully aware of that so this topic must have always been on their list of priorities. For a company like Google with rigorous testing/approving processes in place before a p…

Why does Google get a pass? They're an advertising company, and listening to conversations is very relevant to that business model.

In fact, I think it's more plausible that this entire foray into IOT is to collect even more data for use in advertising (e.g. get more microphones in more places). Why else would an advertising company get into such a wide array of businesses?

Yes, their products are convenient and typically get good QA testing, but there's still no way I'll be convinced that they're not trying to get as much data as possible to contribute to their core advertising business.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#156

Post by beatgammit »

fixermark wrote: post #148
darkerside wrote: post #127

Literally, "Oh, we're sorry. We thought it was obvious we were spying on you by now". Guess their conditioning program isn't yet complete...

When a person hires a personal assistant, the person doesn't generally turn around and accuse the assistant of spying on them because the assistant listens too attentively.

Sure, but the assistant also doesn't typically record all conversations and give them to the service they work for, and they also don't typically bug the entire house so they can hear every conversation throughout the house.

There's no way I'm getting a digital personal assistant like Google Home or Amazon Alexa. It's a novelty that trades privacy for a little convenience, and I'm not that lazy.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#158

Post by beatgammit »

amelius wrote: post #94

That's bad, but remember that every smartphone has a microphone built in ...

Only two more months until Librem 5 launch. Yes it has a microphone (it has to), but it's far more trustworthy than any other smartphone from a privacy perspective.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#159

Post by mvarrieur »

jve wrote: post #111
xyzzy123 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah so the nest protect is, when you look at it objectively, a ceiling mounted general purpose remote sensing package. It’s basically only lacking a wide angle camera and I suspect that’s because they figured it would cross too far into “creepy” for it to be saleable. It seems to me like a team sat for a while, looked at all the possible ways they could get people to mount a package like this in every room and settl…

Are there any alternatives to nest protect that would: Sense Carbon Monoxyde AND smoke AND fire off some event to mobile phone via wifi/sms/whatever?

I use a z-wave smoke detector to supplement the wired smoked detectors in my house: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KMHXFAI

I then paired it with https://www.home-assistant.io/ to send alerts to my phone, google home, etc.

Haven't had to actually test that the carbon monoxide alarm works yet because testing that is hard/expensive, but for smoke it works just fine.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#160

Post by lbotos »

natch wrote: post #143
vegardx wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be connected to a network in order to work. The will even happily do self-check without network access - something I realized when I wanted to mute a self-check only to find out that I had done some network changes. Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. Given that these devices are battery powered and meant to last for years on a single charge you can imagine how often they actually connect t…

>Had to use a schtick, like in the old days. What is that? Google's not helping.

usually people use that word when they are suggesting "that's someones schtick" which is like their habit or what they are known for.

Like trump's schtick is getting people riled up

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