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Whitespace killed an enterprise app

uxdesign.cc

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Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#151

Post by mruts »

dqv wrote: post #69
fermienrico wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe how many times I've heard your story but in different companies. I feel like there is an opportunity to make a graphical user interface framework that mimics old terminals. Full screen apps that leverage use of the keyboard shortcuts or hell even a custom keyboard specifically made for industrial use. Basically a IBM 400 system but running on modern software stack. Airlines have stuck with their UI an…

There are custom keyboards, they're just hard to find. The Devlin KMX-144 or the Logic Controls LK1800 come to mind. I'm sure there are others. You can use (n?)curses to make a terminal user interface. I still prefer the web - just with the keyboard as a first class citizen.

I don’t think webapps can ever make the keyboard a first class citizen. The browser already has a bunch of keybindings.

Personally, I’ve never used a web app that I actually liked or trusted. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m always worried the page will time out or refresh or something.

Like imagine emacs or vim in a browser window, it would be horrible!

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#152

Post by tabtab »

arkitaip wrote: post #83
fermienrico wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe how many times I've heard your story but in different companies. I feel like there is an opportunity to make a graphical user interface framework that mimics old terminals. Full screen apps that leverage use of the keyboard shortcuts or hell even a custom keyboard specifically made for industrial use. Basically a IBM 400 system but running on modern software stack. Airlines have stuck with their UI an…

Not sure the lesson here in going back to CLI. What designers need to do is to conduct research - interviews, observational studies, etc - to understand how and why people use their software and then create design alternatives.

Ignoring a learning curve for the sake of argument, the most effective UI's tend to be command-oriented. If you memorize the abbreviated commands, you don't have to traverse menu trees. Command-line interfaces can still have menus for newbies.

For example, pressing Enter or giving the command "m" or the fuller "menu" at the command prompt may give a menu similar to:

   1 - Search for employees (SE)
   2 - New hire (NH)
   3 - Department transfer (DT)
   4 - Etc.
   0 - Back to prior menu [app-wide convention]
   Command: __
Here newbies just enter menu numbers; but next to each menu is a shortcut command, such as "DT". After they get experienced, they start using the shortcut commands to jump across the menu tree as needed, they are usually global. It's like a Go-to (gasp!). The prior stuff is still on the screen for reference because they wouldn't get a menu when using the shortcut commands; it only shows up if you ask for one.

And the shortcuts may take optional parameters, such as "SE gar" to search for all employees with a last name starting with "Gar". (Without the parameter, they get a typical search form.)

Before GUI's, I worked with users directly to gradually fine-tune such gizmos, and after a while their productivity screamed. They loved me and even forgave my lack-luster people skills.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#153

Post by ryandrake »

tabtab wrote: post #125

Re: Everyone agreed it needed modernization—it looked like it was from the early 2000s, after all! My goodness, Flintones even. The fashion chase is becoming obsessive and wasteful. As I've ranted about many times on HN, UI faddism is a huge time and resource drain and the industry should just say no or see a therapist. It sounds strange, but desktop UI's around 2000 pretty much reached the pinnacle of business UI's.…

I’m convinced this happens everywhere, at almost every software company. As a developer, the most demotivating part of my job was the endless redesigns-for-the-sake-of-redesigns that kept happening. It’s ultimately what drove me away from being an individual contributor software engineer.

And it’s always for goofy vague reasons: “It looks dated!” “It needs more pop!” “It’s not fresh enough!” (What are we making? Software or food?) Nobody is willing or able to prove with numbers or measurement that the old UI is bad and the new UI is better. It’s usually just the designer’s hunch! Yet if I want to change the search algorithm we are using I have to prove the new one is faster with research...

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#154

Post by mruts »

motohagiography wrote: post #105

Was a PM for a product that got criticism for its lack of density. When you are building a powerful tool for power users, you may need density and a lot of levers for flexibility. The consumer/enterprise distinction is huge here. As a domain expert, I was for a sparse UX that emphasized the awesome just-works power of the product. I'll never forget how one bank IT director customer said, "I just can't pay for somethi…

In my comment about the Bloomberg Terminal, I talked about how it, and any good software (also like Vim and Emacs) makes users feel like a wizard. People, especially enterprise banking users, want to feel powerful when using an app. Like it’s an extension of their own mind and body.

If you make something that is valuable but doesn’t give the users a power trip, it will fail. This is just how people work.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#155

Post by billyt555 »

For any UI that has long running power users, however complicated, the users will over time memorize how the screens look and operate. It doesn't matter how 'intuitive' the redesign is because you will have broken their rote patterns - and the user has to rethink how they use the software, often at every turn. In the high paced environment of a call center this is simply untenable.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#156

Post by [deleted] »

mruts wrote: post #25

A great example of a really nice information dense app is the Bloomberg terminal. Maybe it’s ugly (a lot of people say this, but I personally don’t think so), but all the right design choices have been made. High Contrast, monospaced fonts, extensive keybindings, absolutely no wasted space. And, most essential, it’s not a web app. I used to work at a portfolio analytics company who’s explicit goal was: to have all of…

[deleted]

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#157

Post by criddell »

pantalaimon wrote: post #141
danielvaughn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God yes, the older reddit interface was so much better. I don't give a shit how pretty the UI is.

The thing is that the new interface can take seconds to load whereas the old one was instant. How is this an improvement?

It's better for them, not necessarily for you.

Reddit wants lots of growth (they are taking new money now I think) and that means lots of new users that don't know the old UI. The new one is designed with those users in mind, not ones that know the site inside and out already.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#159

Post by supermw »

I see this all the time. It is a symptom of blowhard UX designers who don't understand there's a difference between mass consumer and enterprise app design. They look at a shitty looking enterprise interface and snort "I can make this so much better! Let me introduce you to Material design!"

If you want to make pretty little apps that get you tons of likes on Dribbble or whatever, go make consumer apps.

When it comes to enterprise apps boring is beautiful. I'm talking dense data displays, esoteric shortcuts, NO optimistic saving behaviors, etc. Everything that classical consumer app designers hate. The point of an enterprise app is all business.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#160

Post by NearAP »

>>>> Users absolutely hated the new system. Sure, the old system was ugly, but it had everything they needed, right at their fingertips!I understand this but before agreeing to this, I think one should look at the issue of "change management". By default, people resist change. Once you get used to something, it is difficult to adapt to a new one (even if it is better). If the UI is "really bad", then it should definitely be changed but this should be done in tandem with change management (lots of training, slow cut-over to the new system, etc).
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