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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#151

Post by aqme28 »

lenticular wrote: post #130
atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

>Boycotts essentially never work

Is this true?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#152

Post by paxy »

nck4222 wrote: post #63
nsenifty wrote: post #22

This is why the tipping system in the US is absurd. The whole "you must tip because they get paid peanuts" argument is a circular logic. How about making sure that the worker gets paid fairly by their employer and customers can then optionally tip for outstanding service?

That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.

Plus all studies done on tipping have disputed this. Tips don't depend on the quality of service but rather on how attractive and flirty the waitress is.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#153

Post by _mdpn »

lenticular wrote: post #130
atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

>Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though.

It's not possible with an attitude like that. There is no government action that is forcing you to buy from Instacart.

>Boycotts essentially never work.

Tell that to Birmingham, Alabama.

>Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours?

Whataboutism and false dichotomy. There are many places that sell groceries that pay their workers more than minimum wage. Do a little research and give them your business. Or start your own grocery story if there's really a demand for something like this.

>Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

We can be concerned about more than one thing at a time.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#154

Post by tedivm »

debt wrote: post #115

Instacart is AWFUL. They're paying shit wages and thus offering shit quality, because they're offering a service that literally is unscalable. The logistics of laser-guided-bomb-type delivery of groceries from store to fridge is asinine. Yo, grocery store shopping doesn't suck bad enough to pay someone else to do both the shopping and delivering! I'll pick up the pre-picked-up/bought groceries. I don't need you to de…

Instacart is great for people who live in urban areas and don't have a vehicle. If you live in a rural area or have a car then it's definitely not as useful. Because of things like instacart I can rely completely on public transit and am able to get rid of my car (saving hundreds a month).

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#155

Post by aqme28 »

deepsun wrote: post #99
_t2kx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. This is 100% wage theft.

Many many places do that. I worked in PizzaHut in NJ, and they pay you less than minimum wage initially. Then you report your earnings, and if your tips + salary / hoursworked So you have incentive to report 0.0 tips. But then our manager at PizzaHut let go everyone who reported 0.0 tips (when asked why, he said they called customers to confirm we did receive tips). And that's not only PizzaHut, that's everyone doing…

> when asked why, he said they called customers to confirm we did receive tips

That would make some sense even. If a server doesn't get tips, that could be a sign that they are a bad server.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#156

Post by kaishiro »

atom-morgan wrote: post #97

Seriously, this is the responsibility consumers have in a free market. If there's behavior you don't like, move on. You don't get to complain about bad actors when you're literally keeping them in business.

Can I ask - and this isn't just me being glib because I want to believe what you say is possible - but can I ask if you know of any consumer collective actions in the past decade that have succeeded?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#157

Post by bunderbunder »

wilkskyes wrote: post #111

What are the poor legitimately at fault for then? I'm tired of this implication that the poor can never be at fault for anything, because they are so poor. It is an overly simplified sympathy that doesn't always reflect reality.

The parent didn't say "the poor can never be at fault for anything", they listed a few legitimate examples of victim blaming.

There was the "everything the fault of the poor" bit in the first sentence, but that was obvious hyperbole.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#158

Post by gringoDan »

jonesdc wrote: post #123
nsenifty wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not "socially" mandatory as much as the workers suffer otherwise because they are paid less than minimum wage.

If an employee who earns tips does not make the equivalent of minimum wage pay his or her hours worked, then the employer is required to pay difference (i.e., employees will be paid at least minimum wage for their work)

In the case of on-demand companies, the workers are independent contractors so they're not even entitled to minimum wage.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#159

Post by EpicEng »

warp_factor wrote: post #144
EpicEng wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Workers will not accept to work for low wages anymore. Right, because most service workers have a plethora of options, right? Tipping is a social construct that I'm fine with. I'm also open to the argument against it. I don't think it should give employers a pass on paying minimum wage. The reality is that you are never going to convince enough people to stop tipping and, even if you did, you'd simply drive down the…

The reality is that workers are part of an offer and demand market which is already adjusted to be at equilibrium with the tips. If you remove some of the tips (not everyone will take part as you said), employers WILL have to adjust for it in order to reach a new equilibrium, or start losing workers.

Sure; they'll pay minimum wage or slightly above it. It's not a skilled position (I wanted tables for three years) and most places will take pretty much anyone who walks in. The vast majority of jobs are Chili's, not Morton's.

You speak of helping the workers, but you know what; they love the tip system. They make far more on tips than they would others. If you think Chili's is going to pay waiters 35k and bartenders 45k you're crazy.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#160

Post by [deleted] »

Someone1234 wrote: post #126
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #37

DoorDash does the same thing of “stealing” tips. Either you should tip in cash or not at all.

I want the worker to receive 100% of the tip as much as anyone. But does anyone else find it obnoxious that all these digital services exist, often starting out with no tip straight pricing, then tipping re-appears, and then you suddenly need physical cash to morally use the service at all? Obviously workers should get fairly compensated. The problem is tipping culture itself, just set a price that customers are will…

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