Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#151

Post by briandear » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

zjaffee wrote: post #124

clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you live in LA and know this firsthand or are you repeating a cliché? i live in LA and walk often. it's great. the weather is awesome (60's and sunny today, in the middle of winter), i have dozens of good restaurants and cafes within walking distance, as is most of my shopping needs. parks, theaters, museums, bars, and other entertainment can be easily reached by walking. LA is a big city so not everything is righ…

Sounds like you live in downtown, as that's the only neighborhood that fits all of those things within walking distance. The majority of people who live in LA, live somewhere nestled into the bigger sprawl that is the region. While there are plenty of neighborhoods that have walkable aspects, the city is by no means walkable (even with transit) to huge portions of the city.

West Hollywood, Hollywood, Sunset, Santa Monica, there are a lot of walkable areas in the LA metro.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#152

Post by souprock » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 10:52 PM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #66

0.5% bike to work and 6% walk to work. Interesting that the difference is so large, you'd think that so many more people live withing short biking range vs walking range. I wonder what the stats are for other continents.

The law says you bike in the road, but most people can only bike at sidewalk speed. We'd need to change the law.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#153

Post by frogpelt » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

I know their job is to talk about cities and stuff. But what's the point?

The United States is the 4th largest country in the world and the third most populous.

Is it any wonder that we have a wide diversity of experiences?

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#154

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:01 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #151

zjaffee wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you live in downtown, as that's the only neighborhood that fits all of those things within walking distance. The majority of people who live in LA, live somewhere nestled into the bigger sprawl that is the region. While there are plenty of neighborhoods that have walkable aspects, the city is by no means walkable (even with transit) to huge portions of the city.

West Hollywood, Hollywood, Sunset, Santa Monica, there are a lot of walkable areas in the LA metro.

Who can afford to live in those areas?

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#155

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #144

chrisseaton wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i live in LA and walk often. it's great. Doesn't LA have literally the most polluted air in the country? Doesn't sound great for walking.

I visited Santa Monica (basically LA unless you live in LA) several times and walked almost everywhere, only taking a Lyft when I really wanted to go across town (the Blue Bus comes eventually, but it isn't fast). Air quality was fine and there was a 4-mile beach to walk on if you wanted to really Walk. I know people who live in Downtown LA and don't own cars. I get the impression there are several parts of LA you ca…

It is incredibly expensive to live in downtown LA or Santa Monica. Especially if you actually want to own something.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#156

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #90

joey-bob wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in San Diego, and would visit friends in LA somewhat frequently. My interpretation is based off of my experiences in the northern slice of the area, San Bernardino to Venice Beach. Also I had to drive through LA to go anywhere, which might have colored my experience a bit.

gotcha. san diego is probably the only place with better weather, if that's possible, and seemingly with more intermingled trees (a good portion of LA's trees are in the hills dividing the valleys and basins). venice is super-walkable, and i'd guess it's better to live in the venice/santa monica bubble without a car than with, because getting out of the westside is awful by car for large parts of the day. within the…

How many people can A) afford to live in Venice Beach and B) manage to get a job within walking distance?

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#157

Post by souprock » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #129

njarboe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every city in America has sidewalks. I guess you might be technically correct that "Outside of cities like NY" if "like" means "has sidewalks", but that would exclude almost 100% of cities.

How far do you have to go out to reach an area without sidewalks, though? Even many suburban developments don't necessarily have those. I went to a college in the suburbs of Long Island and the road outside campus was a two-lane road with a speed limit of 55 with no sidewalks. To walk outside of the cities is to invite death. And this is before we get into things like the lack of adequate marked, signalized crosswalk…

Normally, you just step off the road when a car comes. I suppose this doesn't work for high heels, but those can't handle storm drains either. You can even walk off the road.

Sidewalks, signals, and crosswalks all give the illusion of safety. Either the cars are behaving well and you can just step aside, or they are misbehaving and you'll need a concrete barrier to stop them. The signals and crosswalks mean that cars are revving their engines near me, making the air I breathe worse, so I'd rather do without.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#158

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:15 PM UTC

Most places in the US are just very spread out. It's too much area and too low density for trains and buses to cover. Simple as that.

When I lived in New York I could walk to the ferry and then walk to my designated skyscraper a short distance away. But in southern California or Fort Worth, the only place with significant density is downtown. The houses and malls are spread over large distances. Sure there are sidewalks and it is possible to walk to the closest mall or Walmart, but that may easily take 20 or 30 minutes, that is the only place you can walk to and you generally feel like you are taking your life in your hands crossing traffic.

You can theoretically live in a downtown area but for most places in the US it's too expensive for the average person to buy a home or even for most people to rent. And again there is a massive area around the downtown that you would not be able to go to without a car.

It just comes down to this: there is just so much land that people wanted to use all of it. So it is designed to sprawl out. Then people get used to having single family houses with big yards and the skyscrapers are far away and everyone needs a car.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#159

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #68

briandear wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking, public transport and biking are orders of magnitude more inefficient if you have kids or have to transport anything bigger than a backpack.

As someone who grew up in New York, kids are actually much easier with walking, public transport, and biking. I was able to go out to school, head to team sports, go to restaurants and shopping, hang out with friends, etc. all independently. When I went to college, all of my suburban friends hadn't done too much of any of that, because being in the suburbs before driving age requires a parent available to be your cha…

I think the issue is that most cities are nothing like New York. The density is just completely different.

Re: Great Divide in How Americans Commute to Work

#160

Post by ticmasta » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 11:21 PM UTC

techiferous wrote: post #125

bloomca wrote: post #27

I don't think there is such a great divide. The greater divide is between people who own a car (or cars) and who do not, however, seems for USA it is a divide between New York City and the rest of the country. Also, I can comment on one thing I personally enjoy a lot – walking. I lived in many European cities, and recently moved to USA, so I can comment on it. To be able to walk, you need to live close enough to your…

> USA fails miserably at "interesting and beautiful" part. > Grid system makes it super boring > Architecture (in downtowns) is straight up horrible Sounds like you've never been to Boston! Come on over, you'll love it. :)

biking in Boston is... interesting? drivers are not outwardly violent, but don't seem to appreciate bikes much. People seem to (reluctantly) tolerate you but can't resist some passive-aggressive behaviors and lots of honking.

It was still better than cities where the drivers are so oblivious of bikes (and pedestrians) that they wouldn't even notice if they ran you down. (looking at you Montreal)