Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#151

Post by jdietrich » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:01 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #149

darkpuma wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. Or walking... Do you walk a quarter mile or do you ride the bus? If the bus is free the number of able bodied people using the bus for trivial distances could increase.

The metro is full because people commute to their workplace. I don't think a significant fraction lives within walking distance of their job.

You might be inclined to move home to be within walking distance of your office, or to work from home sometimes, or to use the (very good) Velib bike hire scheme, or buy a bicycle or a motor scooter.

Metro rail is sexy, but it's only one part of the transport mix.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#152

Post by adrianN » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #151

adrianN wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metro is full because people commute to their workplace. I don't think a significant fraction lives within walking distance of their job.

You might be inclined to move home to be within walking distance of your office, or to work from home sometimes, or to use the (very good) Velib bike hire scheme, or buy a bicycle or a motor scooter. Metro rail is sexy, but it's only one part of the transport mix.

I move about almost exclusively by bike, but I realize that for many people it's not possible to live close enough to their workplace to do that comfortably. Also, Paris is a terrible city for cyclists (at least that's what it looks like in the videos I've seen) and it takes decades for infrastructure to be built up sufficiently for people to feel safe on a bike.

I think that making public transport free in an easy step on the way to a city that relies a lot less on cars. Of course making it more attractive to walk or cycle and more expensive to drive is very important too, but that requires a lot more work.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#153

Post by m0zg » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #133

bsaul wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a boost in ridership is absolutely not what you’d want in an overpopulated city like Paris. Subway is so bad i’ve already witnessed people waiting for trains from outside the station itself. in the peak hours you often have to skip two or three trains because they’re packed.

The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. You want that even less in a city like Paris.

I pine for the day when a viable arternative is just _working from home_. The technology has been available for at least a decade now. The resistance to remote work is social at this point, and it's stupid.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#154

Post by m0zg » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

ihatemgs56 wrote: post #117

stevekemp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estonia did just that: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/estonia-is-making-pub...

must be nice to live in a country that's not even have half the size of Washington state and has a smaller population than one county (King, to be specific, has more than two million if I remember) in it.

FWIW, as a resident of King County, I would welcome "free" public transportation. The buses on all but the busiest roads are nearly empty most of the time, so as a taxpayer I'm already paying for their cost. If nothing else it might make sense to make rides free on the routes where there are hardly any riders today, since they aren't paying for themselves anyway.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#155

Post by vvillena » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #147

adrianN wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. You want that even less in a city like Paris.

> The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. Or walking... Do you walk a quarter mile or do you ride the bus? If the bus is free the number of able bodied people using the bus for trivial distances could increase.

You walk. Riding a bus means you have to wait for one first. A 5 minute walk isn't worth the wait unless there are extra conditions (no walkways, ice on the walkways, heat wave...).

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#156

Post by chriswwweb » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:43 AM UTC

throwaway123mmm wrote: post #103

stevekemp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estonia did just that: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/estonia-is-making-pub...

And luxembourg

Yes Luxembourg will be first, here is a good article about it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/05/luxembourg-to-...

It was already really cheap, but it was annoying to always have to buy a ticket, have coins in your pocket to do so or remember to recharge your card. As a luxembourgish citizen that uses buses and the tram in luxembourg city from time to time, especially the night shuttles back home after going out, so I'm really happy this will finally soon happen.

I also think it financially makes sense for the country, all public transport costs the country 1 billion but the fares only bring 30 million in, so covering those last 30 million by taxes is in my opinion a good idea. The ticket machines can now get abolished which will save costs too and the workers controlling tickets will be able to do other tasks like related to security instead of hunting down people that didn't pay their 2 euro ticket.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#157

Post by gerrard23 » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #145

adrianN wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative to a boost in ridership is a boost in car commutes. You want that even less in a city like Paris.

at this point, Paris needs to either massively transform itself ( higher buildings, larger roads, etc), which means destroying buildings in the center, like haussman did in the 19th century, or motivate people to just go live elsewhere.

Paris is losing people because the lodging costs are too high anyway

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#158

Post by niea_11 » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #146

niea_11 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to take the metro line 3 from station saint-lazare. At peak hours there was a train practically every minute. As soon as one train leaves another one enters the station a few seconds after. So I often did what parent said. skipping two or three trains isn't that bad when there that many trains.

try line 13

That is a line that I always try to avoid :). I was forced to use it for a short period of time, but I was lucky, I traveled only on the section from Montparnasse to Chatillion which, I think, is not as busy as the rest of the line because most passengers transfer to other lines at montparnasse.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#159

Post by Broken_Hippo » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

ihatemgs56 wrote: post #117

stevekemp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estonia did just that: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/estonia-is-making-pub...

must be nice to live in a country that's not even have half the size of Washington state and has a smaller population than one county (King, to be specific, has more than two million if I remember) in it.

I truly do not see why that matters. For the most part, such things are just an excuse to avoid installing a public robust transportation system. Yes, the amount of people you have, size of area, and terrain makes different sorts of stresses on your system - which is why they need to be somewhat customized to an area.

Businesses do this all the time, and I don't see how it is too big of a hurdle to overcome.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#160

Post by SparklingCotton » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 10:16 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #23

zhoujianfu wrote: post #2

Why not make it just free for everybody? Public transportation typically has profit margins of -50% to -90% anyway... just take it to -100% and get a huge boost in ridership! (And probably save some expenses relating to collecting payment/enforcement.)

Except a boost in ridership is absolutely not what you’d want in an overpopulated city like Paris. Subway is so bad i’ve already witnessed people waiting for trains from outside the station itself. in the peak hours you often have to skip two or three trains because they’re packed.

Then at least make it free for off-peak hours.