Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 164 posts

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#151

Post by MRD85 »

leetcrew wrote: post #70
MRD85 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Australia, which has very relaxed gambling laws. I can walk into most pubs/bars in my city and find poker machines for example, as well as a sports/horse betting facility. There are huge social consequences to gambling. If you look at an entire society you have some people that will have problems with it and some people that won't. You may fall into the "won't" pile but surely society benefits if we prevent…

> surely society benefits if we prevent a large number of our members from falling prey to addiction. how does society benefit from prohibiting people from doing things that only hurt themselves?

Not only does it hurt far more people than yourself, but a lot of behaviours defined as "only hurting yourself" have negative consequences for everyone.

Take drug use, for example. Some people want legalisation under the pretence that it only hurts yourself. Someone sitting at home smoking ice has a risk that they are going to leave their home and participate in behaviour that puts other innocent people in danger, such as driving a vehicle while high.

If a large number of people in an area become problem gamblers then it will lead to issues that affect everyone in the area, not just the gamblers. Who shoulders the cost of this?

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#152

Post by cheriot »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #138
int_19h wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-gambling sentiment and related laws in US date back to the 19th century. But those laws didn't discriminate between various types of gambling, it was all illegal. Washington is one of the states that never relaxed it fully. To this day, casinos are only legal on reservations, for example. https://statelaws.findlaw.com/washington-law/washington-gamb... So this all is separate from the Federal Wire Act, and the ev…

Making all Internet gambling in WA a felony is a relatively recent thing. Passed by progressives for their political allies the Indian Tribes. (WA doesn't even get any share of the gaming proceeds.) I know it is separate from the Federal Wire Act, but I present it as a counter to the commenters here that seem to believe restricting online gambling is some kind of a Trump/GOP thing. Progressive democratic party politi…

Great point. The real story here is regulatory capture and willing politicians. This is what makes money in politics the enemy of every voters on both sides.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#153

Post by leetcrew »

ciupicri wrote: post #150
leetcrew wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are all sorts of laws which protect people from themselves, this is nothing new. See; seatbelt laws for an obvious and simple example. and they are all a grotesque overextension of state power. although seatbelt laws are actually not a good example; they protect people outside your vehicle as well. I guess we just have different values. I don't want to be a revenue center for the state to optimize.

How do seatbealts protect people outside the vehicle?

see int_9h's post. in the event of a crash, unrestrained passengers can hit other people in the car or go through the windshield.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#154

Post by danaris »

leetcrew wrote: post #107
vkou wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A retired fireman pissing his life savings away into a slot machine hurts me, because now I have to either support him, or deal with him sleeping between the dumpsters, in my building's back alley. Slot machines are a hack that exploits human psychology, to the loss of everyone, and the benefit of... Casino owners. I understand that people want to gamble. I also think that it should be aggressively discouraged.

> A retired fireman pissing his life savings away into a slot machine hurts me, because now I have to either support him, or deal with him sleeping between the dumpsters, in my building's back alley. how about instead of trying to protect him from his own mistakes like a child, you just let go of the need to take care of people who willfully mess their lives up? > I understand that people want to gamble. I also think…

"Are there no prisons? No workhouses? Let them go there!"

"But many would rather die than go there!"

"If they would rather die, then let them get on with it! And decrease the surplus population!"

> how about instead of trying to protect him from his own mistakes like a child, you just let go of the need to take care of people who willfully mess their lives up?

Because a civilized, compassionate society takes care of all its members, no matter how broken they are.

And because, furthermore, various studies have shown it to be cheaper to address problems like this before they get that bad than it is to let someone fall through the cracks. At that point, they're likely to be a cost to society in different ways, whether it's due to crime or just the trouble of cleaning up after them.

"State power" isn't a swear word. It's a highly effective solution to a great many societal problems, when exercised sensibly.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#155

Post by EpicEng »

leetcrew wrote: post #111
EpicEng wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't only hurt themselves. They are tax paying citizens and the government has an interest in their welfare. They may have dependents. Now Timmy can't go to college because Dad blew their savings. They get a divorce, now mom and dad are depressed and Timmy enters a life of crime (or, less hyperbolic; doesn't make as much taxable revenue as he could have otherwise.) There are all sorts of laws which protect peop…

> There are all sorts of laws which protect people from themselves, this is nothing new. See; seatbelt laws for an obvious and simple example. and they are all a grotesque overextension of state power. although seatbelt laws are actually not a good example; they protect people outside your vehicle as well. I guess we just have different values. I don't want to be a revenue center for the state to optimize.

>and they are all a grotesque overextension of state power

Well, that's certainly a valid viewpoint, but secondary (and primary) seat belt laws have saved a staggering number of lives. You're correct that it's perhaps not the best example as the driver and occupants can turn into projectiles and harm others, but the vast majority of deaths and injuries come to those not wearing a seat belt[1].

>I don't want to be a revenue center for the state to optimize

It's not about being a 'profit center' for a host of corrupt politicians. We can debate what tax money should be spent on, or the rate at which they are levied, but I imagine we would both agree that taxes themselves are necessary for the maintenance of a healthy society. Your life is better when those around you are healthy and productive. None of us exist in a vacuum.

[1]: https://web.stanford.edu/~leinav/pubs/RESTAT2003.pdf

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#156

Post by EpicEng »

int_19h wrote: post #137
EpicEng wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't only hurt themselves. They are tax paying citizens and the government has an interest in their welfare. They may have dependents. Now Timmy can't go to college because Dad blew their savings. They get a divorce, now mom and dad are depressed and Timmy enters a life of crime (or, less hyperbolic; doesn't make as much taxable revenue as he could have otherwise.) There are all sorts of laws which protect peop…

Seatbelt laws aren't just about protecting yourself. Someone who is not wearing a seatbelt is a threat to others in a crash. For example, a person on the rear seat can actually kill the person in the front seat by blunt skull trauma (hitting the skull from behind with their forehead). And people in the front seats can become projectiles, going through the windshield and hitting people outside. As far as the general n…

>that same logic would trivially justify abortion bans, forced marriage and labor, and all kinds of other nasty stuff.

Only if you left no room for nuance and see every issue as completely black and white. Life doesn't work that way. It's ridiculous to compare seat belt laws (which we already have!) to forced marriage and labor (which we do not.)

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#157

Post by LitFan »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #92
LitFan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A possible explanation for why one would participate in a lottery: What if $5 per week for the rest of their life doesn't impact an individual's standard of living, but $10 million would drastically improve it? Does it then make (more) sense to participate?

That depends on the probabilities involved. If you send me $5/week, I might decide to give you $10 million one day. I don't have $10 million and I don't think I would want to give it away if I got that kind of money, but it could happen. Are you interested? Do you think anyone would be?

If you were regulated like a state lottery, people would be interested - they already are.

I don't think most people even consider the odds when playing the lottery.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#158

Post by daveFNbuck »

LitFan wrote: post #157
daveFNbuck wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the probabilities involved. If you send me $5/week, I might decide to give you $10 million one day. I don't have $10 million and I don't think I would want to give it away if I got that kind of money, but it could happen. Are you interested? Do you think anyone would be?

If you were regulated like a state lottery, people would be interested - they already are. I don't think most people even consider the odds when playing the lottery.

The odds still matter. If no one ever won my lottery, I think people would eventually stop playing.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#160

Post by ThirdFoundation »

RugnirViking wrote: post #136
coralreef wrote: post #7

In contrast: "The Supreme Court cleared the way on Monday for states to legalize sports betting, striking down a 1992 federal law that had prohibited most states from authorizing sports betting." https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/14/politics/sports-betting-ncaa-...

Am I understanding you right? You are not currently allowed to bet on the outcome of sporting events anywhere in the US? That's fascinating news to me

No, you are allowed. You just aren't allowed to online.

Many states now allow sports gambling, with many more on the way.

Post reply on HN