Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

newrepublic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 254 posts

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#151

Post by l33tbro »

alexashka wrote: post #131

This is an incredibly disrespectful article. > He was, in effect, a walking slab of meat to be trotted out whenever a Peking opera production needed a singer or dancer or acrobat. These hyperboles, so full of off-putting judgements are completely unnecessary. It's almost as if the author is hoping to gain, by being as rude and sensationalistic as possible. Imagine if the author of this article actually met Jackie Cha…

Well Jackie Chan is not the most undeserving target.

In past, he narrowly missed out on 'father of the year' after admitting to throwing his young child across a room (1). He was overlooked a second time when he disowned his illegitimate daughter over her sexuality.

(1) https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/03/asia/jackie-chan-autobiog...

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#152

Post by yesenadam »

vertline3 wrote: post #56

We have this tendency to look at successful people and think we can imitate them and have their success. I see Bill Gates is always giving a list of his favorite books of the year. Sorry Bill, if I read your books, I won't be a billionaire. Well Jackie Chan as great, talented, funny as he is. No matter what, I will never be him. Survivor bias and luck play a large role beyond what hard work and pain alone do.

You will never be Jackie Chan, because...survivor bias and luck?!

To be constructive: Here, enjoy G.K. Chesterton's wonderful and funny short essay The Fallacy of Success, which I think agrees with you. I'd love to be able to write so well, but...I'm not him.

http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/bae.htm#l

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#153

Post by skookumchuck »

karmelapple wrote: post #67
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." I'd generalize it to: "Great craftspeople have to kind of like the part of their craft that is unpleasant to 99% of the population." Someone who excels at playing violin, writing computer software, public speaking, etc., generally does not find the "unpleasant" part to be "tiring", "boring", or "work". Instead, it's just part of the overall experience, which is a n…

I'm reminded of fighter pilots: "I can't believe I'm being paid to fly!"

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#154

Post by legostormtroopr »

jdietrich wrote: post #28
doitLP wrote: post #2

Here’s a really cool video breaking down exactly how Jackie sets up his stunt-action-comedy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ One thing that was particular interesting to me is how the setup always starts with him at an extreme disadvantage: no shoes, tied to a chair, hanging upside down, etc. I never noticed it before and it’s exactly what makes his action so enjoyable to watch. (The YouTube Channel is call…

The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO. His fight choreography is rooted in the traditions Chinese opera while being constantly fresh, playful and imaginative. He shows absolute technical mastery, but there is always a sense of child-like joy underpinning that mastery. The fact that his films are often regarded as frivolous and lightweight says something profound about what is valued in our cultu…

> lack of respect Chan gets in the west

What? He's one of the biggest breakout stars from Hong Kong cinema in Western History. Is a household name, and starred in scores of movies during his career, including a 3 picture comedy/action movie series (Rush Hour), then went on to reboot a beloved 80's action story alongside the son of one of Hollywoods biggest names.

He also had his own cartoon for a while.

How the hell do you get "lack of respect" from his shining career?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#155

Post by NeoBasilisk »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

>If he could do it in the situation he grew up in, anyone can.

This is a terrible mindset to have.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#156

Post by neolefty »

the_af wrote: post #7

Interesting how difficult and rough Jackie Chan's childhood was. He certainly succeeded, but at what cost? This article reviews how Chan downplays the hardships he was forced to endure (e.g. being essentially sold by his parents as an indentured servant when he was seven years old, complete with beatings and dismal living conditions) and instead chooses to focus on the end result, his success as an adult.

> but at what cost?

Yes, and at what cost to those who didn't make it! Thank social progress that it's getting better, but there's still a ways to go.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#157

Post by phs318u »

stcredzero wrote: post #117
Pfhreak wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the answers to your rhetorical questions matter? Is there any answer to your questions that makes indentured servitude of minors acceptable? I cannot conceive of any answers that would.

Do the answers to your rhetorical questions matter? As someone who was a child who was sent away to school by his parents, let me tell you that they matter a great deal. (Particularly from the POV of an adult looking back vs. the experiences of a child.) They are precisely the questions that should be asked to distinguish manipulations of "Think of the children!" hysteria and genuine issues of the human rights of min…

Your last paragreaph sounds contradictory to me. In order to "regulate conditions", the government must reserve the power to intervene should said conditions fail to meet regulatory minima. Failure to reserve such power automatically neuters any "regulation". There are only two distinct choices - no government power over these conditions and therefore no regulation (in effect, irrespective of contrary claims), or regulation (with government power to intervene). In the latter case there is broad scope for where the threshold for intervention is set and most discussion centers on this. But in all cases, the existence of such a threshold requires government power to intervene.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#158

Post by phs318u »

stcredzero wrote: post #112
alistairSH wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you actually arguing parents should be allowed to self their children into servitude? If so, there's no point debating with you - I find the practice morally reprehensible (and yes, the systems that make such an arrangement in any way palatable are also reprehensible).

Are you actually arguing parents should be allowed to self their children into servitude? No one wants children to be sold into servitude. However, the state impinging into family affairs to the point where it can be 100% prevented is essentially making the state the full de-facto guardians of the children. This is the state of affairs where children are informing on their parents to the state. It's in part up to the…

A contra point to the example you give regarding gay teenagers (last para), is the persistence in many parts of the world of "honour killings" contrary to government proclamations against such practices. In these situations, government failure to intervene (and educate, and...) renders legislative protections useless.

Also, it seems to me that in the past (and the present!) gay teenagers had just as much (if not more) to fear from their parents than from the state. Even in totalitarian theocracies, I'd suggest that in such regimes it's often outraged parents that "out" their gay children to the state. I could be wrong.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#159

Post by bsder »

jdietrich wrote: post #28
doitLP wrote: post #2

Here’s a really cool video breaking down exactly how Jackie sets up his stunt-action-comedy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ One thing that was particular interesting to me is how the setup always starts with him at an extreme disadvantage: no shoes, tied to a chair, hanging upside down, etc. I never noticed it before and it’s exactly what makes his action so enjoyable to watch. (The YouTube Channel is call…

The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO. His fight choreography is rooted in the traditions Chinese opera while being constantly fresh, playful and imaginative. He shows absolute technical mastery, but there is always a sense of child-like joy underpinning that mastery. The fact that his films are often regarded as frivolous and lightweight says something profound about what is valued in our cultu…

> The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO.

I don't think he gets lack of respect. Directors have studied his stuff for years. Anyone who has watched his movies has been impressed for years. However, let's face it, the average person didn't have any inkling who he was until Rush Hour.

As for Jackie Chan's work, the problem is that you get injured. No stuntmen in their right mind would do the kind of stunts he did. A slight change to the angle of several of his bad landings and Jackie Chan isn't a star but has been dead or crippled for 20 years.

As for his fight choreography, the primary problem is that it takes time, and that's something that Hollywood simply will not abide. You see this in the way Hollywood does music, CGI, etc. Everything is about cranking the handle and getting things done quickly, if there is craft, well, that's a happy accident but certainly not required.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#160

Post by phs318u »

stcredzero wrote: post #84
vinceguidry wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get out of it. I'm not entirely certain where to draw the line.

> The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. My own family history has a lot to do with indentured servitude. If you watch Korean historical dramas, you'll find the condition described as being a "servant" but at other times, the same condition will be described as being a "slave." In terms of being signed up as minors, exactly how d…

> The line should be firmly held at physical coercion.

I disagree. Mental coercion is a thing. Also, children (and often adults too) don't have the knowledge that there exist alternatives i.e. that they have choices. Denying people that knowledge removes their agency. In the case of children they look to their parents as providers - not just of nurture but of knowledge. They trust them and often accept without question. Should instinct be seen as a failure on the child's part or a conscious agreement/submission to the conditions they are subjected to? If so, then whole areas of jurisprudence concerning minors will have to be re-written.

EDIT: spelling: their/there

Post reply on HN