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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

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Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#151

Post by augustl »

What is the case for NYT labelling Carl Benjamin as "anti-feminist"? He was involved in gamergate, but I don’t believe he’s against equal rights for all genders. I suppose "feminist" means different things to different people.

I also find this to be vague and unclear. Hate speech is bad, but who defines it? His use of the n-word was targeted ironically towards alt-righters. Why is that self evidently off limits? Is referring to the use of the n-word in a context where you are defining it also off limits? How can we be sure it is not? Patreon is not very clear on this in my eyes.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#152

Post by zimpenfish »

awakeasleep wrote: post #71
namlem wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they succeed, because they'll just end up isolating themselves to their own little echo chambers, sparing the rest of us from having to hear their drivel.

What you're describing is a system to develop extremism.

We already have systems to develop extremism. That's how these extremists have arisen. What we need is to develop systems that combat and drive out extremism.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#153

Post by ubernostrum »

paulcole wrote: post #92

> Why are we giving companies and people the right to silence vast amounts of voices and opinions on random whims? This is not a new situation. But all of a sudden it’s a problem because it’s conservative white guys instead of women, LGBTQ people and people of color?

[flagged]

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#154

Post by darkpuma »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #125
darkpuma wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware of what he said. He also said: ‘I was being anti-Nazi,’ I can't get into his brain and determine if he actually opposes genocide or secretly supports it, but from what I've seen thus far it seems he carelessly uses offensive racially charged language but takes exception with those who advocate for genocide. Just so we're clear, I don't like this guy. I dislike a lot of people who fall well short of being na…

Right, he agrees with white supremacists, and is happy to repeat their talking points, up until public advocacy of genocide. He's happy to say things like this[1]: > it's about gaining attention and it seems like k*kes are ruining everything The reason I'm posting this is because you mentioned that Sargon was arguing with, and insulting, white supremacists. Which, to those who are unfamiliar with Sargon, is not a cla…

As I've said numerous times elsewhere in this discussion, I find him to be an offensive and unlikable person. In this immediate thread of conversation, I was responding to the suggestion that a line should be drawn at the advocacy of genocide by pointing out that he doesn't seem to cross that line, at least as far as I've seen.

I fear people are getting the wrong idea by not noticing the full context of my above comments. I hope we've now reached a mutual understanding.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#155

Post by EpicEng »

danso wrote: post #132
pavel_lishin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this as a straight white guy, the slurs aren't as offensive as the whole underlying philosophy and line of thinking. Although I like that the No True Scotsman fallacy leaking through the cracks.

The slurs seem more like a natural symptom of him thinking that black people act subhuman.

I see him throwing the slurs people in his stream are using back at them.

>Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”

He's saying that these people are acting in exactly the manner they are accusing others of acting, and he's using their slurs to make the comparison.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#156

Post by sayno3 »

People just latch on to these identities (anti-fem, fem, racist, anti-racist, whatever) because it's an easy way to feel like you are important or what you say matters without having done anything noteworthy or without anything original to say. It is such a big deal to others because we as a society have jumped the shark in regards to "actually matters." It is one of many twisted end-games of post-modernism, an infatuation with the mobius strip of self-criticism and pointless navel-gazing. Incitement to violence only works if people want an excuse to be incited. Zealous tribalism is only relevant because people need the comfort of a mob in order to act out. Neither an individuals screams into an echo chamber, or the response of some forum are any more novel than the previous decades of talk radio or cable television. Hell is other peoples' need to feel relevant in a world where your 15 minutes feels like it is just a few mouse-clicks away. Taking this BS so seriously is just as dumb as any hate-rant. Taking it seriously is the ONLY thing that gives it power and turns it into a memetic pathology that may destroy the world.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#157

Post by PhasmaFelis »

monksy wrote: post #89
losvedir wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or Visa likewise today -- it's understood that other people will use the same plastic to pay for things you morally disapprove of, just as they could use cash. But it's positioned as a neutral carrier, and nobody cares (I think). Heh, well I hope so. But that recent NYTimes story[0] about how mass shootings used guns and ammo bought with a credit card makes me unsure about that. I'd have thought using cash vs credi…

I have a huge concern over anyone who is stating that the CCs are to partly to be blamed. Yes, they were used for firearms. Firearms are expensive and plastic (for the most part) is the currency in the US. For me that's flipping the bozo bit for that individual. It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of. It's the mob rule.

> It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of.

If you don't have anything to fear from Trump, that's nice for you, but given that he's openly calling for me and people dear to me to have our civil rights revoked, it's pretty shitty of you to tell me that I shouldn't be afraid of him.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#158

Post by zimpenfish »

Lkjhmnbv wrote: post #146
zimpenfish wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a functional democracy requires tolerance of unpopular opinions not just by the government but also by society at large If you insert "some" before "unpopular", I'm with you. If you require "all" before "unpopular", then no, I disagree - e.g. people who believe "LGBTQ people should be done away" with, well, that's an "unpopular opinion" that should not be tolerated and, in fact, should be made anathema for anyone t…

So we should do away with them? Your comment is illogical.

> So we should do away with them?

With some unpopular opinions, yes.

> Your comment is illogical.

Could you explain why?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#159

Post by nkurz »

bilbo0s wrote: post #108
orthecreedence wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personification makes sense to me, at least in regards to Patreon. But then you get to Youtube...a stroll through the comment section of any video makes you realize you're in the digital version of Mos Eisley. There is no brand to protect, yet they wave their censorship wand quite often, including just this last week ( https://www.businessinsider.com/r-youtube-under-pressure-for... ). It seems a lot of these videos w…

Not really worrying. Just different individuals and organizations taking different positions on different subjects. Most importantly, all of it happening on private property. I have an unpopular opinion. I believe people should be able to fly nazi and confederate flags on their private property. (Even if their private property overlooks yours.) I believe football players should be able to kneel during the national an…

I have an unpopular opinion.

Do you think this is actually an unpopular opinion, or just one not well represented by the two dominant national political parties in America? You mention elsewhere that you are from small-town Wisconsin. I grew up there also (Ladysmith) and now live in a small town in Vermont. I feel like this attitude is still quite common in rural America.

The downside of this framework is that it's hard to justify things like the Civil Rights movement (which I presume you agree was a mostly a positive?). How does one draw a line between "restaurants must serve customers regardless of race" and "businesses can choose not to offer services to racists"? Or does one give up on the first as well, and hope that the force of capitalism is strong enough to fill the gap?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#160

Post by ubernostrum »

throwawaysea wrote: post #77

I don't understand why commenters in these threads keep noting that free speech only protects people from government censorship. This is a common, distracting, and empty statement. Proponents of free speech are pro free speech as a general concept and principle, beyond what protections are afforded under American law today. The idea of free speech predates the existence of the United States. Free speech is hugely val…

I have a soapbox.

I like to stand up on it and yell out my views. Sometimes I let my friends use it that way, too.

Some guy comes along and would like to use my soapbox to yell out his views. But I don't like him and I don't agree with his views.

Would you like the government to come force me at gunpoint to let him use my soapbox?

What you're arguing, basically, is that once my soapbox gets popular enough that lots of people want to use it, you do want the government to force me, at gunpoint, to let them use it even when I find their views repugnant.

Or, basically, what this person said, and they said it better and in fewer words:

https://twitter.com/lessdismalsci/status/1076488300188307456

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