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As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

thetransportpolitic.com

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Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#151

Post by davnicwil »

cnorthwood wrote: post #65
davnicwil wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> London-Manchester is 210 miles, and trains take only 2 hours Yes and to further emphasise, this is not a high speed train (though it does use leaning trains making it faster than other lines, and has few stops. Also it's 2 hours 15 mins to be precise). The proposed high speed train promises London-Manchester in ~1 hour.

It's only 2hrs 15mins if you go the longer way via Crewe, the more direct services via Stoke with fewer stops are around 2hrs 5mins. It also depends on your definition of high speed train, the original definition is 125mph, which the Pendolino definitely is (and is actually the max speed of the British train called the High Speed Train). We keep redefining what High means... HS2 with a max speed of 186mph will be 67m…

Good points. By the way just for interest - I take this service regularly and for me it seems to take 2:15, going via Stoke. Furthermore I've actually never seen it go via Crewe, I didn't even know it did. This might depend on the time of day though - I always take it at the busiest times and/or weekends which might increase the journey time a bit.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#152

Post by kingosticks »

grecy wrote: post #106
kingosticks wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's here today. It's easy with simple investment, it's got huge benefits over the joke that is the current U.S train service.

There are plenty of passenger trains in service around the world that go faster than 200mp/h, today.

Yes, but the US just needs a taste to get going. They don't need to aim too high, they should concentrate on delivering something.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#153

Post by Gibbon1 »

ams6110 wrote: post #74
soheil wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security lines are shorter than airports now because public is not relying on trains in the US for travel as much as airplanes yet, if that happens what makes you think there won't be TSA all over train stations making you take your shoes off before boarding?

Exactly. The TSA will do that, if rail ever becomes popular.

First thing the TSA started doing when BART was extended to the SF Airport was to start running drug dogs on BART trains and busting people for pot.

Absolutely vital that California keeps the TSA off of it's HSR

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#154

Post by Gibbon1 »

melling wrote: post #103
reindeerer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the same size as US. Somehow, they have HSR

They have a lot of HSR. About 15,000 miles at the moment, with another 10,000 on the way.

China spent a lot of money over the last ten years on HSR.

The US spent a lot of money on war.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#155

Post by melling »

DeonPenny wrote: post #133
melling wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, i’ve been hearing it won’t work for about 40 years. You’re wrong, of course. Unfortunately, now it’s incredibly expensive to build HSR. China, the same size as the US, will have 25,000 miles of HSR within a few years. Your calculus is wrong but let’s just check back in 2025. At some point, we’ll realize the advantage that all that HSR gives China.

The difference is population density. It make sense for china because popution center need to pipe huge amounts of people around. That doesn't exist in the US where cars are more efficient.

How’s the population density in Spain? They have more HSR than the US.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#156

Post by eesmith »

brudgers wrote: post #135

In 1869, Oakland and Council Bluffs Iowa were joined with a golden spike, completing the Pacific Railroad. From Oakland, it runs Sacramento, Truckee, Reno, Ogden, Cheyenne, Lincoln, and finally Omaha across the Missouri from Council Bluffs. I80 follows the same route today. Not because of travel demand between Oakland and Cheyenne, Wyoming (population 60k). Because of geography. The article asserts France has about 3…

Why doesn't the US have a good regional high speed rail network?

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#157

Post by rco8786 »

corodra wrote: post #86
rco8786 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So make it regional. There’s no high speed rail from Paris to Moscow either.

The economics still don't work. It becomes a "public work" project instead of a self-sustained business. If the car ended up being much more expensive to purchase and operate, like it is in countries mentioned that are doing so well in rail, then more Americans would ride them. Once you have a sufficient amount of usage, then it would lead to more high speed rails being developed. I wrote this up a few days ago for a…

> Obviously, you've never had to actually commute on a regular basis on public transit.

I lived and commuted in NYC, SF, and Chicago. I haven't owned a car in 6 years. I'm intimately familiar with commuting via public transit.

There's too much in your post to reply line item by line item... but I'll just say that a defeatist attitude toward rail or breaking the USA's car dependency will get us just that - defeat.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#158

Post by DeonPenny »

melling wrote: post #155
DeonPenny wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is population density. It make sense for china because popution center need to pipe huge amounts of people around. That doesn't exist in the US where cars are more efficient.

How’s the population density in Spain? They have more HSR than the US.

Spain has 3 times the population density of the US. The US would need 900 million people to have the same density.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#159

Post by brudgers »

eesmith wrote: post #156
brudgers wrote: post #135

In 1869, Oakland and Council Bluffs Iowa were joined with a golden spike, completing the Pacific Railroad. From Oakland, it runs Sacramento, Truckee, Reno, Ogden, Cheyenne, Lincoln, and finally Omaha across the Missouri from Council Bluffs. I80 follows the same route today. Not because of travel demand between Oakland and Cheyenne, Wyoming (population 60k). Because of geography. The article asserts France has about 3…

Why doesn't the US have a good regional high speed rail network?

The US does not have political subdivision at the regional level (except as might be reflected at the state level of political subdivision). For example, New England is not a political subdivision while California might be considered one incidentally.

At the state level, a high speed rail will never benefit most residents. For example, a "northeast corridor" line is great for Philadelphia, Manhattan, and Boston. doesn't do anything for the citizens of Pittsburgh, Albany, and Springfield.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#160

Post by melling »

DeonPenny wrote: post #158
melling wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s the population density in Spain? They have more HSR than the US.

Spain has 3 times the population density of the US. The US would need 900 million people to have the same density.

I guess we’re lying with statistics.

The population density of Kansas and Montana is quite low. America is quite large.

However, Los Angeles and New York, San Francisco, etc are much more densely populated than Spain.

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