Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 2. Current US administration is going 180 degrees in the other direction, i.e. doing everything it can to support coal. And apparently failing miserably in this effort: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/17/epa-cheers-...
I think this article helps me clarify a great point, mainly in these sentences: "The yearslong decline in U.S. emissions has been widely credited to the oil and gas boom. Power plants increasingly turned from coal to natural gas as innovations in extraction technology resulted in lower prices." Lots of people talk about carbon emission reductions, but there is a much simpler way to think about it. There is a lot of c…
Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
151–160 of 185 posts
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Should they be the ones paying for everybody else and let the people living in the cities without a car not pay their fair share of the burden?" A carbon tax, which taxes carbon, taxes the people who use carbon less, does not sound like users aren't paying "their fair share". They ARE paying their fair share, because they use less. The problem of use-based taxes affecting the poor disproportionately is well-known, b…
The reason that people in cities won't pay the tax is that they have buses and trains available. That is not available to the people from the countryside. You can't just say stop polluting but not give any alternative mode of transport for this people. What about the rest of the people of this the planet who don't live in a city? Should they just shut up and take it? Easy to say when you are not the one who has to pa…
These are all choices that otherwise, they would not make, because it's cheap enough and easy enough to run a diesel car that alternatives aren't important. The point of a carbon tax is to change that equation, such that people start looking for alternatives.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Earth's atmosphere doesn't care about geo-political boundaries either Countries won't solve it. If Americans can own up to the fact that per capita reduction in co2 emissions by them, will have a huge effect on co2 emissions in the world (because that means practices/regulations/technology that'll trickle down to largest polluting countries.), then it'll mean genuine difference. American media has no right to point f…
You have some good points. I personally think we still would have an unacceptably large problem w.r.t. climate change regardless of what happens in the USA. And the U.S.'s potential for emissions growth is just so much smaller than other large countries - and ones that have strong, independent governments to boot. The US is definitely a big player. I think it is still most useful to look at this in terms of emissions…
It might be too late now, but the US has set the example & led the way for the rest of the world on certain things for decades. Soft power. We can do it again, but we have to lead from the front.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this all the point though? People live further out and travel more because it's cheaper. The goal is to change behaviour by making more polluting choices less cheap. If the problem is the poorest, why not use the fuel duty raised to help them? They're surely not using all the fuel, so this could be a net benefit to them.
> Isn't this all the point though? People live further out and travel more because it's cheaper. The goal is to change behaviour by making more polluting choices less cheap. The problem I have is that those incentives are driving people to kill themselves as they cannot afford to live anymore. I guess that's what the government wants though, less pollution. Can't pollute if your dead.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#155It seems to me we are truly and globally fucked: 1. There were just massive protests and riots in France (a relatively ecologically-aware country) due to an increase in the diesel tax of about 8 cents a liter meant to help wean the country off carbon. As a result of the riots, the tax was cancelled. 2. Current US administration is going 180 degrees in the other direction, i.e. doing everything it can to support coal.…
Who exactly is behind this yellow jacket stuff, though? How about everybody else goes on the streets? We're talking about the survival of hundreds of millions of people, even billions of people, and a few thousand people engaging in vandalism make gas tax increase not an option, just like that? Why do we so easily accept mass starvation and wars in the future, but not harsh laws now? And no, I don't mean tax the midd…
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#156I cannot take any of these reports seriously unless they are comparing emissions from each country on a per capita basis. This is an easy way to make US look like a responsible polluter compared to India and China. Its a different ball game, if you factor in the total emissions per capita over last 100 years, in which case, US emissions are probably a few multiples over China and India combined (that's my guess. I'm…
Eh, that doesn't necessarily provide fair statistics. Lets use this contrived example with made up numbers where the US has a population of 500 million and China 1 billion. US per capita: 1000 tons of CO2 per year China per capita: 1000 tons of CO2 per year. Looks like China is twice as good. But if you break out population statistics and 500 million of them live in mud huts and produce almost no CO2, then the other…
The measure you're looking for is carbon intensity of economy. How many tons of CO2 are produced per, say $1000 of economic output.
> But if you break out population statistics and 500 million of them live in mud huts and produce almost no CO2, then the other half that have moved to US like living conditions produce US like carbon.
That's not really indicative of anything other than a wealth disparity, which I'm sure can happen both in high and low per capita polluters.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a completely separate problem. If country X can produce food cheaper than yours, your farmers will be unprofitable and you'll end up importing food (or subsidizing local food somehow). If both countries impose a carbon tax in the same amount, nothing about that has changed. Moreover, the best way to do a carbon tax is to just give the money back to people -- use it to fund a UBI. Then the amount can be as hig…
No, you've got comparative advantage crucially wrong. If country X can produce food a bit cheaper/better than you, but produces shoes much cheaper/better, then you end up growing at least some of your own food and importing shoes from X. https://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/Details/comparativead...
If you and some other country are producing food for the same cost (e.g. because you pay more for an hour of labor but have better automation), adding the same cost to each doesn't affect your competitiveness. You both still have the same costs as each other.
The same amount of fuel tax only affects you differently if you require a different amount of fuel to produce the same amount of food. Then the party using less fuel has the advantage and may end up producing more food while the party using more fuel produces less. But that's what we want to happen -- having the other country produce food in that case is the desired outcome, because it can do it for lower cost once the externalities of burning carbon are priced in.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a completely separate problem. If country X can produce food cheaper than yours, your farmers will be unprofitable and you'll end up importing food (or subsidizing local food somehow). If both countries impose a carbon tax in the same amount, nothing about that has changed. Moreover, the best way to do a carbon tax is to just give the money back to people -- use it to fund a UBI. Then the amount can be as hig…
> If country X can produce food cheaper than yours, your farmers will be unprofitable and you'll end up importing food It really depends on where the tipping point is, country X might have a slight advantage but measures like this can widen the gap, then secondary factors like economies of scale kick in. > If both countries impose a carbon tax in the same amount, nothing about that has changed. Most international agr…
For most markets with behaviors like that you're already doomed, because the other country will figure it out and borrow some money so they can operate temporarily at a loss or convince the government to provide temporary subsidies until they achieve the economies of scale. More likely a marginal cost increase would only result in a marginal reduction in demand.
Notice also that this is the exact argument used against anything that increases costs on local businesses. France might have some candidate regulations nearer to the front of the line than the carbon tax if they were actually interested in taking that seriously.
> Most international agreements are (rightfully) trying to give developing countries a reprieve and let the developed ones shoulder must of the short term burden for the renewable transition.
But then it's doing what it's supposed to do. Why volunteer for a burden and then complain when it comes?
> But it's happening at the same time that we're reducing tariffs and developing countries get a double advantage while the working class in developed nations get a kick in the guts.
Which is why all the money should be going to a UBI.
> I'm all for both, but using a carbon tax to fund UBI would invert the incentive, governments would want companies polluting more to fund their welfare commitments. We see the same with high cigarette taxes, the government gets dependent on them for general revenue.
This is a generic anti-tax argument. If the government collected tax revenues from American tech companies, they would become dependent on the money and become unwilling to resist their privacy invasions, therefore they should subject all those companies to no taxes.
The thing about that argument in this case is that it only applies as long as the carbon tax exists, which will make it continue to exist, which is good. Moreover, the easiest way for the government to placate recipients and give them more money isn't to get people to burn more oil (which is pretty hard if you're taxing it heavily), it's to raise the carbon tax rate. Which is also good.
At some point people will actually stop burning oil and the UBI would have to be funded some other way if you want to keep it, but so what? Having that problem implies having solved the original one. And having a population that has seen the benefits of a UBI and wants to continue having it seems like a pretty good problem to have too.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Population density (people/km2) - EU: 116 - US: 33 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
Canada has density of 4 people/km2, and somehow manages to have less per capita CO2 than the US.
Re: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Rise Like a ‘Speeding Freight Train’ in 2018
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn't this all the point though? People live further out and travel more because it's cheaper. The goal is to change behaviour by making more polluting choices less cheap. The problem I have is that those incentives are driving people to kill themselves as they cannot afford to live anymore. I guess that's what the government wants though, less pollution. Can't pollute if your dead.
This is massively cynical but I do see your point. I think a more viable solution is probably for the government to build low cost high rise public housing (NOT targeted at the homeless) near major cities, to reduce transportation word.
Better yet to build electric vehicle infrastructure (trains, trams, charging stations - cheap compared to housing) which could also be used by some business, tax non-train freight. Replace buses with electric ones.
Farming cannot be done in the middle of the city and you probably do not want factories there either... Your move would likely kill the remaining parts of this business if successful.