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Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

nytimes.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#151

Post by vitomd »

RebeccaHarris wrote: post #65

You may recognize RebeccaHarris from Lichess, but for those who don't: I'm GM Daniel Naroditsky, senior at Stanford and - like all of us - still wrapping my head around the massacre we just witnessed in Rapid. I had a feeling this would happen, though I have gotten the better of Magnus in bullet on Lichess with a mix of wild play and lucky tactics. Speaking of which, I've been involved in beta-testing the killer onli…

I saw your twitch channel and also your lessons on youtube, really quality stuff and very instructive. I´m a Software engineer and amateur chess player. I'm intrigued about your project. Is there any website or twitter to follow the development?

I think we need to support this kind of project so our hobby can grow. I like to contribute to the online chess world with some open sources projects http://chesswindmill.com/ it will be awesome if you can check them.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#152

Post by nicodjimenez »

antaviana wrote: post #80
nevi-me wrote: post #6

I was disappointed in Carlsen's 12th game draw. He might have etched something out of the game, as computers were clearly saying he had some slight advantage. After seeing the first games from today, I eased down on my disappointment. Today's first few games changed my mind. Carlsen remains the better player, because he does better where it matters; time pressure. Caruana seemed to battle with time a lot, I observed…

Here is some reasoning on why chess with humans should move to rapid chess: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/2662/how-popular-i...

Thanks for sharing, this is really smart

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#153

Post by gmiller123456 »

nevi-me wrote: post #58
gmiller123456 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because he does better where it matters; time pressure. Not at all. Both of these guys would handily beat me and pretty much any other player quite easily in standard time controls. Time pressure was only a factor here because there's public pressure to name someone as the champion. In the vast majority of all tournaments, ties are left as ties. In the event there is a prize that can't be split (e.g. a title or a t…

He does better relative to his peer(s)

That isn't the point up for debate, the question is whether or not "time pressure is what matters".

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#154

Post by ericdykstra »

mindgam3 wrote: post #126
johnb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kasparov had said that all players are worse in blitz, but that Carlsen gets least worst https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1067826806823297029

Thank you! With that nuance added, I believe it now. Kasparov generally isn't the kind of person to make sweeping statements that I know are false.

Well, at least not about chess.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#155

Post by gameswithgo »

mindgam3 wrote: post #115
michalu wrote: post #106

In the end, Carlsen is the man who knows the best how to win in chess. Regardless of all critics. He played the 12th game safe knowing he's a huge favourite in rapid and blitz. Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves. Under these conditions it's more than sensible to move into the terrain where you have an…

I can't argue with your first premise. Your following points, however, are less convincing. "Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves." Even if Kasparov and Grischuk said this today (citation please?), it doesn't make it true. There are many players who get better playing rapid and blitz. Look at the traject…

A lot of people's ideas of what purism is in sport depend on whether the act in question helps them to win, or to lose, and whether they are just spectating, and whether they are fans of the person committing the act.

This is a general truth in sport, not just Chess. See also bike racing, baseball, PUBG.

People will tend towards doing what it takes to win. If you don't like those tactics, change the rules.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#156

Post by enneff »

gpm wrote: post #129
monadgonad wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made a sacrifice and "conceded" one game to a draw in order to increase his chances of winning the championship via his superior rapid play. He lost the battle to win the war. That is complely playing to win.

I dispute this on two points. He did not fully "win" the championship. Sure, they had to give the title to somebody, so it's him, but splitting half of the prize is not a complete win. Even if he had fully won, I don't view it as a sportsmanlike strategy to give up a game to put yourself in an advantageous position. That's why we have a rule against agreeing to a draw to early. That's why in hockey stopping trying to…

I think you misunderstand how the prize money is allocated. They both got 400k for competing, and the winner would take 200k. Since they went to tiebreaks the winner only got 150k while the loser gets 50k. So in this sense Magnus didn’t really split much of the prize with Caruana.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#157

Post by gpm »

enneff wrote: post #156
gpm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dispute this on two points. He did not fully "win" the championship. Sure, they had to give the title to somebody, so it's him, but splitting half of the prize is not a complete win. Even if he had fully won, I don't view it as a sportsmanlike strategy to give up a game to put yourself in an advantageous position. That's why we have a rule against agreeing to a draw to early. That's why in hockey stopping trying to…

I think you misunderstand how the prize money is allocated. They both got 400k for competing, and the winner would take 200k. Since they went to tiebreaks the winner only got 150k while the loser gets 50k. So in this sense Magnus didn’t really split much of the prize with Caruana.

They both get paid 400k for competing. That's payment, and maybe a prize for reaching the championship, but not a prize for the winner of the championship, so I ignore it.

The winner gets 200k in prize money. In the case of a tie the winner gets 150k, the loser gets 50k. That is to say the winner gets 100k, and they split 100k, which is half the prize, which is what I said.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#158

Post by jpatokal »

Retric wrote: post #128
sytelus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite funny thread. I often marvel at folks dissecting sport game outcome for hours retrospectively as if everything was perfectly explainable only after outcome was seen. We don't see this in HN threads much - well, except for chess games :). In reality, pro games have such strong contenders that each have very thin edge, if at all, and the outcome is usually just same as throwing dice.

That does not really hold up. Serral for example is the current best StarCraft 2 player in the world. They operate in tournaments where X players face off usually starting with 16+ players doing single elimination. He won 4 regional, and 2 international tournaments in a row. The odds of him pulling that off if the odds of each win where close to 50/50 would be ~1/(2^30) aka 1 billion to 1. Instead, he was heavily fav…

I think the previous poster was referring to sportsball/handegg type physical team sports, where there are a lot more changing variables (team composition, physical condition, stadium, weather, ...) than in chess or StarCraft.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#159

Post by inopinatus »

michalu wrote: post #106

In the end, Carlsen is the man who knows the best how to win in chess. Regardless of all critics. He played the 12th game safe knowing he's a huge favourite in rapid and blitz. Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves. Under these conditions it's more than sensible to move into the terrain where you have an…

Re. the financial calculus. His sponsorship and modelling income is not known precisely but I've seen it estimated at $2 million per year. Losing the title puts all that at risk. A 50k penalty to prizemoney is peanuts.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#160

Post by shaklee3 »

mindgam3 wrote: post #115
michalu wrote: post #106

In the end, Carlsen is the man who knows the best how to win in chess. Regardless of all critics. He played the 12th game safe knowing he's a huge favourite in rapid and blitz. Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves. Under these conditions it's more than sensible to move into the terrain where you have an…

I can't argue with your first premise. Your following points, however, are less convincing. "Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves." Even if Kasparov and Grischuk said this today (citation please?), it doesn't make it true. There are many players who get better playing rapid and blitz. Look at the traject…

Can you explain this more to someone not knowledgeable about these tournaments? What did he do that was unconventional?
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