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Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple deprecates Java

#151

Post by moxiemk1 »

calloc wrote: post #140
rbanffy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clang/LLVM is BSD while GCC is GPL. That means Apple can extend them all they want without ever giving you, or their competition, any sources. If they ever perceive a threat from their competition, Clang/LLVM provides a lot more maneuvering space than GCC ever would. And yes, GCC is a very hard thing to integrate into tools and it's that way by design.

I would like to point out that Apple employs the guy that builds LLVM/clang and all those projects and yet they are still releasing the source code and everything out there for the public to use.

My appologies for accidental down vote instead of up vote. :(

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#152

Post by mbreese »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #126
jimfl wrote: post #122

Combine this news with the announcement of the App Store for OS X, and one possible conclusion is that Apple doesn't want Java-based apps in the app store. It's an easier prohibition to make if the JVM is not officially supported by Apple. Also, this could be a guard move against Oracle, a capricious litigator.

2.24 "Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected" It doesn't explicitly e.g. it, but Flash isn't installed by default either on the new MacBook Airs, so I'm guessing you can't do a wrapper around a SWF either.

That's a very clever move. If you don't want your app store to distribute Flash based programs, just make it so that Flash isn't installed by default. Since it can be installed by users, most people won't notice. But they can legitimately claim that Flash is an optional component...

Clever like a fox.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#153

Post by grhino »

swannodette wrote: post #108
jwr wrote: post #106

That is very bad news for those of us who use Java on Mac OS X. And I don't mean UI programming, but developing server Java (or any JVM-hosted language, such as Clojure) applications.

Why? http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/Ja... The situation for Java will now be the same as that for developing in any programming language that Apple doesn't ship with OS X or that ships with a version lower than the one you are targeting. My suspicion is that Apple is likely to drop Java in 10.8 which gives ~3 years for the JVM community on OS X to get their act together making OpenJDK work…

I don't see it having a big impact on server side JVM languages. As long as the developers are the only ones that have to be the ones to deal with the JVM installation headaches, it won't be that much worse than server side Java already is :)

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#154

Post by shepting »

The reason that this is a big deal is that they've released/leaked some of the guidelines for the Mac App Store and it states that apps developed using "deprecated or optionally-installed technologies will not be accepted."

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#155

Post by mbreese »

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #13
jdub wrote: post #3

Note that they've only deprecated their own Java runtime .

Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Java Deprecation" in h2 font-size 187%, jiggling inside at the moment he did. EDIT: I understand it's only a "possibility of removal", yet if I started working on a JVM-based app/product right now, I would be concerned.

Simple answer: No.

Long answer: Who knows? Apple has always developed the Mac port of Java, with a lot of customization in the GUI (custom Swing properties, events, etc). This was historically because at the time, the Mac user base was too small for Sun to support themselves. So, Apple took over the project and has run with it ever since. They've added some good things to their JVM too, such as shared memory for libraries (I believe).

However, I think that now, Apple has decided that it isn't worth it for them to support it. So the answer to your question will largely be up to Oracle. If they decide to port Swing over to the Mac, then I think there is a shot of having a good JVM for 10.7+. If not, I think that you can say goodbye to the JRE in the Mac.

It isn't like the client has ever been a big focus for Oracle. To them, Java is all about the backend. They may want to work on a JVM for the Mac just to allow developers to still code on their Macs, but I'm not sure.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#156

Post by mikecaron »

This whole thing happened when Java 1.6 came out. It took Apple forever to get it into OS X and there was a big fight for it. Now it's happening again. Must be a pain for Apple to manage it.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#157

Post by benologist »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #126
jimfl wrote: post #122

Combine this news with the announcement of the App Store for OS X, and one possible conclusion is that Apple doesn't want Java-based apps in the app store. It's an easier prohibition to make if the JVM is not officially supported by Apple. Also, this could be a guard move against Oracle, a capricious litigator.

2.24 "Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected" It doesn't explicitly e.g. it, but Flash isn't installed by default either on the new MacBook Airs, so I'm guessing you can't do a wrapper around a SWF either.

Flash has had "publish to exe" capabilities since forever so I'm sure something'll emerge that publishes to w/e Macs use.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#158

Post by alanh »

shortlived wrote: post #120
masklinn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, is there really any other? For years, Apple has been pretty much the sole provider, and had their very own JVM with specific look & feel customization to the UI packages. The only real alternative is Soylatte[0], which is fairly purpose-specific. [0] http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

> The only real alternative is Soylatte[0], which is fairly purpose-specific. What do you mean exactly by "purpose-specific"?

>SoyLatte Project Goals

> - Support for Java 6 Development on Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5

> - OpenJDK support for Java 7 on Mac OS X

> - On-time release of Java 7 for Mac OS X

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#159

Post by stcredzero »

riffraff wrote: post #136
stcredzero wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do not pay attention to proper data structures cause you can get away with builtin collections etc Specific examples from your experience?

code I wrote myself :) First one I think of (cause I redid it today, in ruby :) is: you need to keep a list of lines you already processed in a large log analysis. I'd just use a Set (which is a hash underneath) and get done, although I'd have saved a bunch of overhead (memory allocations, gc pressure) using a bloom filter.

Examples where the "extra overhead" caused an actual problem?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#160

Post by [deleted] »

thought_alarm wrote: post #42
msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

I think it just means that Apple has no interest in bringing Java 7 to OS X. It certainly took them a long time to release Java 6. Funny thing is, one of my favorite Mac apps was/is written in Java: Cyberduck FTP client. Cyberduck is an open source app originally written using the Java/Cocoa bridge, then using some hybrid of Cocoa and Java. But the thing is, the end user has absolutely no idea that it's a Java applic…

[deleted]
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