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Why Is College in America So Expensive?

theatlantic.com

151–160 of 348 posts

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#151

This is such a weird article. It promotes this vision of college being expensive, then undercuts its main argument: > “The public system in the U.S. is working as well as most systems,” he says. “Parts of the U.S. look like France.” > Three out of every four American college students attend a school in this public system, which is funded through state and local subsidies, along with students’ tuition dollars and some…

Even if the quote says the public system that covers most students is "working well", the average student loan debt of a graduate is still pretty high [1]:

> When they graduate [in 2016] the average student loan borrower has $37,172 in student loans, a $20,000 increase from 13 years ago.

Of course this is an average, but I don't expect this is something where some people with millions of dollars in student loans are skewing the averages. I imagine the median is not that far off.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-much-the-average-s...

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#152

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

I don't know about UC Davis, but we just went to family camp at UC Santa Barbara for a week, and the food was fantastic.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition ALONE is exactly what drives prices down. The endless supply of students with a government guaranteed loan is why they are not going down, why would they? It completely violates the most basic element of our economy. Fully socializing those things is a solution better than what we have now, but that is the point where those things stagnate (US K12) which is why I prefer the free market solution and still…

Can you name a single country that has accessible, inexpensive, high-quality higher education system provided entirely by the private sector? The view that free markets are some sort of magical panacea for education or especially healthcare strikes me as an extraordinarily anti-empirical -- if admittedly hyper-rationalist -- position.

This. You have plenty of data points to choose from. Show us. Empty ideology just won't cut it.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is essentially free for many european countries, that is what I think sufficient level of subsidy

"free": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis

What does this has to do with college prices?

I've studied CS 3.5 years for ~550€ per year (around $700). This includes free public transportation, but excludes an apartment.

In Germany, you can get a gov. funded student loan which can go up to ~750€ per Month. You have to pay back only the half of that. The 750€/Month is the highest amount that you can get. But you get it only if you have to pay the health insurance yourself, which is ~90€/Month. Otherwise, the maximum amount ~650€/Month. What you can get depends on the income of your parents. If your parents earn a lot of money, you get less.

What you have to pay back is capped to 10000€ in total, free of interest. So if you get more than 20000€ in total, you still have to pay back only 10000€. You even get a discount on that if you pay back early. If you are taking this loan, your maximum debt is 10000€ (to be repaid only after the receiver exceeds a certain income level after graduation).

You don't get it forever, though. It is limited to 3-5 years, depending on what you study.

It is called Bafög: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesausbildungsförderungsg...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_financial_aid_(Germa...

I'd consider this as "free enough".

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#155
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the luxury portion. My university hasn't added a "cheap" dorm in decades. Now they're all suites, where 2 or 4 people share a bathroom, and are much more expensive. I think a big part is students growing up in a middle class lifestyle and wanting to change as little as possible. I lived in the cheapest dorm available (no AC in the heat and humidity of Iowa). At current rates, 4694/year versus 6415 in the…

At the same time, "cheap" can hurt the effort at education. My freshman dorm room had me and one other roommate in a single room that I recall as being 8 ft by 15 ft. It was probably larger, but the issue wasn't the size but that he liked to come in at 3am and go to bed, falling asleep to the TV, while I had an 8am class and really had problems sleeping with noise on. Did I need to learn to deal with it? Sure. Did I…

Your roommate in a suite could have just as easily been like that (unless it really was a socioeconomic class problem). GPA in the same-major across housing situations would be interesting to explore. I had neighbors who partied every Friday night with loud music and underage drinking until ~2 AM. It sucked, particularly when they did that during finals week and I had 8 AM finals.

I have friends who were in the suites, and there was basically no community developed there. In the standard dorms, people knew each others names because they'd run into them on the way to the bathroom. People kept their doors open (particularly in areas without air conditioning).

I say all this as a graduate of Iowa State, which I understand has one of the higher on-campus housing rates (95% of freshman, 50% of people who were on-campus last year are again this year).

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#156

Unless you have a full-ride scholarship, go to pleb-tier state school. If you are studying a STEM field you'll have to learn the exact same math and science as the Harvard and Stanford grads, but you'll do it for far cheaper if you attend a public university in your state of residence. If you want to do a postgrad program, don't worry: top tier schools will come sniffing if you're good enough, no matter where you're…

I agree, but...

One of the things that you get in a university is contacts. A top-tier school may in fact be worth more money than a pleb-tier state school, if the people you meet there are worth more to know (over a lifetime) than the people you meet at a state school.

... says the guy who went to Random State University...

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#157

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

> the main driver is the availability of student loans

100% this.

If you want to have an affordable college education, you can have one.

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1. I'm from Florida and the best school in the state is (arguably) the University of Florida. In-state tuition is $3,191 per semester, so $25k for four years. And that's the amount if your GPA/SAT/ACT doesn't qualify for the relatively easy 75% Bright Futures state scholarships or more-difficult-but-still-common 100% scholarships.

2. I went to Brigham Young University (private school) in Utah which is $5,620 per semester, so $45k for four years. And that's assuming your GPA/SAT/ACT doesn't qualify for the easy 50% scholarships or the hard 100% scholarship.

Text book are pricey, but there are ways to avoid paying the bulk of the costs. E.g. rentals, buying used. UF's libraries have text books with 3hr checkout times.

A three-month $10/hr 40hr/wk summer job is $5k pre-tax. A nine-month $10/hr 10hr/wk part-time job is another $4k. Plus, the IRS will give you $2.5k per year via the American Opportunity Credit.

Naturally, there's also food, rent, and transportation, but those exist regardless of college attendance. (Though finding cheap shared living is far easier in college towns.)

---

Coming out of a undergrad with $50k+ in student loans is not done because you have to. It is done because you choose to. Given the availability of student loans, lots of people choose to.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting to me that the three areas main areas in America that have become exponentially more expensive are healthcare, construction, and education. It's curious that they have the most government control.

Could you explain to me how the government control of those things had lead to price increases? Specifically? I hear this a lot but have never heard an explaination and I am genuinely curious of the reasoning

IMO, it has less to do with government control per se, and more to do with someone paying for it.

Insurance pays for healthcare -> patients care less about how much it costs -> healthcare costs mysteriously rise

Government/lenders pay for school -> students care less about how much it costs -> education costs mysteriously rise

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting to me that the three areas main areas in America that have become exponentially more expensive are healthcare, construction, and education. It's curious that they have the most government control.

Could you explain to me how the government control of those things had lead to price increases? Specifically? I hear this a lot but have never heard an explaination and I am genuinely curious of the reasoning

Some examples other than what people have already mentioned:

Prescription drugs. The FDA has a "no existing alternative first" policy - they work on approving drugs for conditions where no current treatment works before they even start considering competitors to existing drugs. This sounds quite logical, but the effect of it is that every new drug is granted a monopoly for a long period of time before any competitor can even legally sell their alternative, so the drug company can literally charge whatever they want.

Building codes. In my grandparents' day, it was still possible to construct your own house: you bought a plot of land, hired a concrete mixer to come pour the foundation, bought a lot of 2x4s, and spent a bunch of time hammering & sawing. Now, you have to conform to all of the local building codes (which in the Bay Area, I've heard, is an 800-page tome), and you need to get approval for every feature of the design from the city building inspector, who has the power to completely block your construction if you get on his shit list. As a result, the only people who can build housing are ones who have good relationships with the city and the know-how to adhere closely to all the building codes.

Zoning. Even if you have that know-how and relationships, there are some things you just can't do with housing. Own a 1/4 acre with a single family home and want to convert it to a 4-plex? Too bad, it's not zoned for that.

And you can see the economic impact of all of these by looking at situations where they're absent. Consider generic drugs: once a generic has been approved, the price of a drug can fall by 90% or more. Or compare housing in the Houston metro area, where you can get a 3BR2BA for under $200K, to the Bay Area, where the same house will set you back $2M.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is essentially free for many european countries, that is what I think sufficient level of subsidy

> College is essentially free for many european countries, that is what I think sufficient level of subsidy Most of the countries which people usually talk about here - France, Germany, Spain, etc. - have significantly lower matriculation and graduation rates than the US does.

Could you point me to some numbers?
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