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John McCain has died

nytimes.com

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Re: John McCain has died

#151

Post by kristjansson »

danielvf wrote: post #102
bitcurious wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is not supported by the article you posted. Per the article: > At about 10:51 (local time) on 29 July, an electrical power surge in the Phantom occurred during the switch from external to internal power. The electrical surge caused one of the four 5-inch Mk-32 Zuni unguided rockets in a pod on external stores station 2 (port inboard station) to fire. What's interesting is that if you dig into the sources c…

That seems to be exactly the same story I'm describing. An unguided missile was fired from a different aircraft across the carrier and set both McCain's aircraft and the aircraft adjacent to his on fire. The missile was not fired by McCain's aircraft. Some video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I

Not the person you replied to, but I think the issue they took was with the phrasing ‘accidentally fired’, which could be (mis)read to imply user error instead of malfunction. I know I read your post in the former sense until I saw this one and read the original more carefully

Re: John McCain has died

#152

Post by kristjansson »

hirundo wrote: post #94
davrosthedalek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a quote, (miss-)attributed to Voltaire: "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It". I think McCain could have said it too. I don't think there are many people like that left in politics.

Given McCain-Feingold a more accurate representation of McCain's view is "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, except for certain ads discussing political issues within 60 days of a general election or 30 days of a primary election."

You can saw whatever you want. What you can pay to have broadcast on television is another matter entirely.

Re: John McCain has died

#153

Post by myrandomcomment »

mnm1 wrote: post #137
adventured wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the obvious. Very few people would be capable of enduring torture across nearly six years, while letting numerous other prisoners go free in their stead. McCain signed up to the military willingly. He comes from a family line of professional soldiers. Who knows how many of those others he put before himself were forcibly drafted into it, plausibly many of them (late 1967 was near peak US troop levels,…

If he was drafted, you might have a point. Yet he willingly joined a war that even back then everyone knew was unjust and pointless. I don't see how that makes anyone a hero, no matter what they do in said war. People in this country sure have a really fucked up conception of what a "hero" is.

I am glad in hindsight your understanding of the situation was so clear. I promise you at the time things where not a black and white. Also he joined the military as a graduate of the Navy Academy way before the war in Vietnam was a real thing. He was a brave, honorable man deserving of our respect. It is easy to sit back after the fact and make grand judgments.

“John McCain and I were members of different generations, came from completely different backgrounds, and competed at the highest level of politics. But we shared, for all our differences, a fidelity to something higher – the ideals for which generations of Americans and immigrants alike have fought, marched, and sacrificed. We saw our political battles, even, as a privilege, something noble, an opportunity to serve as stewards of those high ideals at home, and to advance them around the world. We saw this country as a place where anything is possible – and citizenship as our patriotic obligation to ensure it forever remains that way.

Few of us have been tested the way John once was, or required to show the kind of courage that he did. But all of us can aspire to the courage to put the greater good above our own. At John’s best, he showed us what that means. And for that, we are all in his debt. Michelle and I send our most heartfelt condolences to Cindy and their family.”

-Barack Obama

Re: John McCain has died

#154

Post by hluska »

ruskerdax wrote: post #71
davrosthedalek wrote: post #16

The world lost a true statesman. What a sad day.

Yeah, if hackers are known for anything, it's being big fans of statesmen, especially ones that approved the PATRIOT Act (twice), extending its wiretapping provisions, and sponsoring a bill that would let the US government detain anyone in the world indefinitely without trial. Truly a sad day.

This is a very weak, thoroughly tasteless comment.

Re: John McCain has died

#155

Post by ikeyany »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #4

John McCain did somethings that I disagree with but the one thing I will always remember is when during the 2008 election there were multiple times during town halls and rallies that people would verbally attack Obama and McCain always shut them down without fail.

He was truly one of our last great Republican leaders.

Re: John McCain has died

#156

Post by docker_up »

pjscott wrote: post #86
ransom1538 wrote: post #6

"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and followed his father and grandfather—both four-star admirals—into the U.S. Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and capture…

I once described John McCain as an unprincipled torture apologist for his political positions during the Bush administration. I think I was probably mistaken, and I apologize to his ghost.

You were completely and indisputably wrong about McCain and his stance on torture. He has always, always been against it and never wavered.

Re: John McCain has died

#157

Post by vortico »

dopeboy wrote: post #24

I got to live in Iowa in the summer of 2007 for an engineering internship at Rockwell Collins. One bonus of that was getting to go to all the rallies. I went to a McCain rally and an Obama rally. I remember the energy of the room when Obama came in. The crowd was young and loud. Obama got up and gave his usual stump speech and then went around to shake hands. I shook his hand and got a word or two in but I could tell…

It's interesting hearing stories like this. One thing to remember is that for the same time you got to experience his presence while shaking hands, you were also a part of his life experience too. It sounds like you certainly remember him, but he likely remembered those experiences too (as is the case with other celebrities thought as "too important to care about those moments").

Re: John McCain has died

#158

Post by 27182818284 »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #4

John McCain did somethings that I disagree with but the one thing I will always remember is when during the 2008 election there were multiple times during town halls and rallies that people would verbally attack Obama and McCain always shut them down without fail.

He tried to do the right thing. Sometimes it came out a bit awkward like the infamous "He is a decent human being" comment, but his heart was in the right place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk

Re: John McCain has died

#159

Post by docker_up »

rpiguy wrote: post #124

John McCain’s first wife was a model who had a car accident that left her crippled and eroded her good looks. John McCain then cheated on her and then left her, eventually remarrying a younger, very attractive, very heiress. By most biographical accounts he was not a nice man in private, very egocentric, and had a very carefully constructed and well-maintained public image. He also was a POW to a brutal, Communist re…

He was very close friends with Joe Biden. Biden himself said on many occasions that if McCain ever called him up for help, Biden would be on the next plane to wherever he was in the world. I don't doubt that he had his enemies that hated him, but I doubt that sentence "he was not a nice man in private, very egocentric, and had a very carefully constructed and well-maintained public image." No one is perfect but there are more than enough honorable people that have painted McCain as both admirable, honorable and loved by them.

Re: John McCain has died

#160

Post by rayiner »

humanrebar wrote: post #116
rayiner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who does agree with a lot of positions McCain represented, I can't blame anyone who feels the need to distance themselves from his political party before paying respects. Some of our key political disputes today aren't good-faith disagreements about policy. They're attacks on peoples' families and livelihoods. And when you attack people personally like that, decency is something that goes out the window: h…

Political disputes these days are about identity, not ideas, values, or policy. They're not even about politics, really, since politics means compromise, changing minds, and growing support. Everything these days is about discouraging opposition, enraging base coalitions, and running off everyone in the middle. It's about forming tribes and battling. That's no way to build a healthy society. It scares me more than an…

Political disputes are about identity because one side keeps insisting on making them about identity. When you attack peoples’ livelihoods based on their identity (e.g. threatening the jobs of transgender people in the military), you can’t complain when people get tribal. When you have police departments that target one group based on skin color, you can’t be surprised when they get tribal. Tribalism is how you protect yourself from threats to yourself and your family. Many people feel like they’re under attack, and when you’re under attack you don’t care about ideas, values, or policy.

I’ve seeing it happen before my eyes over the last 20 years. Where I grew up, lots of rich Indians and Middle Eastern people were Republicans. Identity politics wasn’t a thing. No longer. The current political climate is forcing people to pick sides, and people aren’t stupid—they’ll pick sides along tribal lines. You might not agree with your tribe, but you can trust them not to turn on you when things go sideways.

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