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Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

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151–160 of 207 posts

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#151

As an ops person this is a super interesting question, so its really kindof surreal to read dozens of replies wherein not a single one mentions throughput, tail latency, or error rate measurements.

For near realtime systems that scale it is right up there with the fastest application servers. In fact, if you take the auto-scaling properties into account it probably beats those servers because it can do it seamlessly up to incredible number of requests / sec without missing a beat. If you want low latency you can replicate your offering in as many zones as you feel like. People start worrying about throughput, l…

> In fact, if you take the auto-scaling properties into account it probably beats those servers because it can do it seamlessly up to incredible number of requests / sec without missing a beat.

Autoscaling is one of those things that's easy to name but hard to actually achieve. I've had some involvement with an autoscaler for a few months and it's been educational, to say the least.

In particular people tend to forget that autoscaling is about solving an economic problem: trading off the cost of latency against the cost of idleness. I call this "hugging the curve".

No given autoscaler can psychically guess your cost elasticity. Lambda and others square this circle by basically subsidising the runtime cost -- minute-scale TTLs over millisecond-scale billing. I'm not sure whether how long that will last. Probably they will keep the TTLs fixed but rely on Moore's Law to reduce their variable costs over time.

Disclosure: I work for Pivotal on a FaaS product.

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just isn't true. For many companies the cost of their IT infrastructure is a very small fraction of their annual turnover. It all depends on the economics of your particular case whether or not this makes sense. For some companies it does, for some it doesn't.

At some point the fixed cost of real servers does become appealing.

That point comes way further along, assuming you're talking about bare metal and not simply cloud instances.

For my workloads, serverless functions would end up costing 4-5x more than operating the infrastructure myself. Given that my infrastructure costs exceed the salary of some number of developers, that's a very real difference.

Probably makes a lot of sense for early-stage, though.

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#153
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was latency a concern for you at all? If serverless did not exist, would the functions have been (micro) services with similar latency overhead?

I've found functions apps have a slow startup time, but once they are going, they perform pretty fast. I think we currently don't have any functions in time-sensitive streams (they're rather new, so they are used for new features such as Oyster automated refunds, which can be applied a few days later if need be), so when I say we haven't had any performance issues with them, it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. I…

This is fascinating stuff — every time I use my oyster card I have wondered what it is doing behind the scenes.

Do you know of any write ups about TFL's infrastructure/processes? Would love to read about it.

I'd also like to buy whoever lead the TFL API's move from XML to JSON a coffee|beer!

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#154
post #48

Just the opposite of serious for me. Example: there's a website for all the weather radar stations in Canada that lets you see the last two hours of 10-minute radar snapshots. I wanted a dump of them to try some ML algorithms, but even after requests and emails there simply wasn't one. So I set up a lambda to run every hour, load the website for all 31 weather stations and save all 6 images from the last hour to S3.…

Same. I setup an AppEngine cron to call a Google Cloud Function every 8 hours to invoke an API and persist on GitHub all for free[0].

0 - https://github.com/cretz/badads

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#156
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the tooling: I hated debugging Lambdas via CloudWatch logs when using them for Hustle, it drove me to drink. I eventually got upset enough that I made a tool to stream the cloudwatch logs to the terminal and colorize, indent + nicely format json output: https://github.com/TylerBrock/saw

There's also https://github.com/rpgreen/apilogs but I haven't yet gotten it to work. Cloudwatch feels like it was not made for humans. Searching and filtering for specific log events is a huge pain. I think one of the best things one could do is to pipe your Cloudwatch logs to an ElasticSearch cluster.

Anything where you have to install python is kind of a drag. Same thing with awslogs, etc...

Saw installs as a single binary, is performant, and has better looking output than all of them.

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#157
post #86
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the tooling: I hated debugging Lambdas via CloudWatch logs when using them for Hustle, it drove me to drink. I eventually got upset enough that I made a tool to stream the cloudwatch logs to the terminal and colorize, indent + nicely format json output: https://github.com/TylerBrock/saw

That looks like a nice tool! Will check it out. Have you tried anything like iopipe for helping debug lambdas?

No I haven’t tried it. I’ll give it a look.

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#158
Yes! It's great. Scales very well. Costs almost nothing. Focused only on business logic. Provision in minutes. Deploy in seconds. I will never go back.

- https://begin.com - https://brian.io - https://arc.codes <-- the framework I used

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#159
post #54

The "serverless" architecture is cool, but it irks me every time I hear the given name for it. For a marketing term mainly aimed at developers, I'm amazed they picked one so terrible.

Agreed, it doesn't make much sense hearing "serverless". Like, is data being served to a client or not? I haven't done much reading up on it but it basically sounds like someone else is hosting and executing your code?

To my understanding, it mean you write endpoints and only endpoints. You don't have to configure an OS, or even write the code that says "bind to port X and start". You just say "when you get this request, do this". Which is a neat abstraction! But there's still a server, you just don't have to manage it directly.

Re: Ask HN: Have you shipped anything serious with a “serverless” architecture?

#160
post #54

The "serverless" architecture is cool, but it irks me every time I hear the given name for it. For a marketing term mainly aimed at developers, I'm amazed they picked one so terrible.

I've heard the analagy used that "Servers are to Serverless what wires are to wireless", the main point being that they're still there, but they're no longer something you manage or directly interact with. I'm also starting to see the term LaaS (Logic as a Service) used as an alternative to "Serverless" here and there.

I think the analogy falls apart because in the part of the system that's referred to as "wireless", there is literally no wire. The serverless comparison would be more like if they used a lot of zip ties and some well-placed rugs so you never saw the wires going directly to you computer and called that "wireless".

LaaS sounds much more accurate/palatable.

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