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WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

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Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#151

Post by guitarbill »

robalfonso wrote: post #145
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expect this to take a minimum of a year. GDPR was announced over 2 years ago, why are they only just starting now?

They aren't but the nature of the process is "Everyone gets an opinion" that takes a lot of time. So they spent over a year soliciting opinions, sorting out legal issues etc, and came up with "we need some kind of authorization system on top of whois" but they've got to build it and they have 0 competence in that realm, so it will need to be put back out to committee. A process will have to be devised, a spec written…

That simply not true. The EU data protection Working Party (Article 29 aka. WP29) has being telling them since 2003 that Whois is not compatible with EU law [0]. That's well over a decade.

Even if ICANN only took GDPR seriously, their plan A was awful and their plan B was non-existent, see the thread further up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081950

[0] http://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion...

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#152

Post by antthewho »

Forget hacking! you wanna unhack my constantly blacked and hacked phone line make sure you get a 9/11 movie star to call once you have my IP 146.200.117.18. and telephone number 44(0)1491573890. British mafia think they own a brain they have no idea, i am nice guy family man and they have been blocking my bank account and telephone for 15 years only findout now. so if you know anyone we would appreciate your strength and connections and friendlyness. Lets hope some of you are nice guys

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#153

Post by guitarbill »

MR4D wrote: post #134
obscura wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR was proposed in 2012 and has been heavily discussed since then. It was adopted in 2016 and as of 25 May 2018 will be enforceable. Anyone who uses the data of EU citizens should have known about it. They certainly had plenty of time to consider the effects of it on their own operations.

ICANN is a US company. Technically, the rules don’t apply to them, because it is an EU law, not a global one. However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of. So regardless of how long ago it came out (and trust me, 2 years is nothing for dealing with something like this), it still wasn’t well…

> However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of.

Hmm, so you're saying the US doesn't do anything like this? DCMA, FBAR & FATCA, etc, etc.

The only reason Americans are complaining about this one is that they're the ones having to comply with a very sane law. Or because they haven't read it, and have no fucking clue how it or privacy works.

> are EU citizens. But only those that live in the US with a social security number. [...] So my question is what happens if someone files a GDPR issue with my company?

Read the GDPR. Only companies outside the EU that specifically go after EU residents are in scope. It has nothing to do with e.g. EU nationals residing abroad.

So enough of this "woe is us" bollocks. It happens every post about GDPR, and I'm sick of the FUD tactics.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#154

Post by MR4D »

icebraining wrote: post #138
MR4D wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes - I worded that poorly! What I’m trying to say is that now proving ownership of something is more expensive. I can’t just say, “here’s the link to my patent” because no names will be attached. So somebody’s random claim would look just as real as mine. Sure, lawyers will have access to this, but now you have to talk with a lawyer to see if that job candidate really does own the patent. It’s things like this tha…

The GDPR doesn't have a blanket ban on publishing personal data! The problem with the WHOIS database is that it's forced upon individuals. The EU has no problem with a WHOIS database that allows people to freely opt-in to publish their data (Whois "privacy" services don't count - privacy must be the default, and you certainly can't be forced to pay for it). The reason the database is going dark is that ICANN has comp…

As a one-off, no, it's not terrible. But factor in the millions of little things, and all the time spent by all those people, and this ends up being a big waste.

I'll say it again - people are underestimating the unintended consequences. And I believe they are severely underestimating it as well.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#155

Post by MR4D »

guitarbill wrote: post #153
MR4D wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICANN is a US company. Technically, the rules don’t apply to them, because it is an EU law, not a global one. However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of. So regardless of how long ago it came out (and trust me, 2 years is nothing for dealing with something like this), it still wasn’t well…

> However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of. Hmm, so you're saying the US doesn't do anything like this? DCMA, FBAR & FATCA, etc, etc. The only reason Americans are complaining about this one is that they're the ones having to comply with a very sane law. Or because they haven't read it,…

Not a FUD tactic on my part, so please don't put "woe is me" on me.

For what it's worth, FATCA, DCMA , et al really suck too, and I think those have terrible unintended consequences. But this post was about GDPR because that's what the topic of the oringinal post is.

And no, I'm not complaining about it - I'm saying it's poorly implemented.

And before you go off on Americans having to comply with a law OUTSIDE OUR JURISDICTION, how about we hold all of our crappy laws over your head. And fine you 4% of revenues for one of our bullshit laws? You wouldn't like it either, WHICH IS MY POINT - it's a poorly implemented law.

My company has a (damn good) privacy policy. We take privacy very seriously. But fuck all if some other country wants to put a regulation on MY interaction with someone from their country in my hometown. (And I have the same opinion if the US wants to regulate some American doing something in another country - the US should fuck-off then as well).

You seem super supportive of this law, but what will your position be when China "improves" their Social Credit system to require anybody in any country who deals with a Chinese national to report their information/conversation/etc to the Chinese govt within 24 hours of gathering the data? Will you support that because the Chinese have the noble goal of social stability? Or will you decide that in this particular case, and because you don't like their extra-territorial law, that "they can't do it." ?

I have no intention of reading the GDPR because IT'S NOT MY LAW ! Does that not resonate with you? I don't expect you to read the DMCA, FATCA, Patriot Act, etc, so why do you expect me to read yours? It has nothing to do with me (except for those unintended consequences that I'm trying to explain above).

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#156

Post by petercooper »

holstvoogd wrote: post #141

ICANN is scrambling to be compliant they write... We've all had 2 years notice since the GPDR has been adopted! And if you 'didnt know', you have bigger organizational problems. I understand it is a lot of annoying work, but adtech and data brokers (etc etc) have been gutting privacy and the internet for long enough. We've let it come this far, now we get regulated. (disclaimer: I only started working on compliance t…

We've all had 2 years notice since the GPDR has been adopted!

Have we really? The first it cropped up on my radar was late 2017 and I'm in a business that adheres very strictly to EU DP best practices (so was already mostly GDPR compliant).

I'm not sure whose job it was to promote awareness of this but Britain's data protection agency certainly didn't do a good job of it given they've had my email address for years(!)

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#157

Post by Semirhage »

MR4D wrote: post #155
guitarbill wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of. Hmm, so you're saying the US doesn't do anything like this? DCMA, FBAR & FATCA, etc, etc. The only reason Americans are complaining about this one is that they're the ones having to comply with a very sane law. Or because they haven't read it,…

Not a FUD tactic on my part, so please don't put "woe is me" on me. For what it's worth, FATCA, DCMA , et al really suck too, and I think those have terrible unintended consequences. But this post was about GDPR because that's what the topic of the oringinal post is. And no, I'm not complaining about it - I'm saying it's poorly implemented. And before you go off on Americans having to comply with a law OUTSIDE OUR JU…

For what it's worth, FATCA, DCMA , et al really suck too, and I think those have terrible unintended consequences. But this post was about GDPR because that's what the topic of the oringinal post is.

And before you go off on Americans having to comply with a law OUTSIDE OUR JURISDICTION, how about we hold all of our crappy laws over your head. And fine you 4% of revenues for one of our bullshit laws?

Kind of hard to reconcile those two positions, given that the former is just a perfect example of the latter.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#158

Post by MR4D »

Semirhage wrote: post #157
MR4D wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a FUD tactic on my part, so please don't put "woe is me" on me. For what it's worth, FATCA, DCMA , et al really suck too, and I think those have terrible unintended consequences. But this post was about GDPR because that's what the topic of the oringinal post is. And no, I'm not complaining about it - I'm saying it's poorly implemented. And before you go off on Americans having to comply with a law OUTSIDE OUR JU…

For what it's worth, FATCA, DCMA , et al really suck too, and I think those have terrible unintended consequences. But this post was about GDPR because that's what the topic of the oringinal post is. And before you go off on Americans having to comply with a law OUTSIDE OUR JURISDICTION, how about we hold all of our crappy laws over your head. And fine you 4% of revenues for one of our bullshit laws? Kind of hard to…

You need to reread my post. Those two comments are perfectly in line.

My point is that GDPR sucks (as does DMCA, etc). Extra-territorial laws have wide ranging unintended consequences, and hence should be avoided. That's why we have treaties.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#159

Post by lumberingjack »

Back in 2002 teenager me used WHOIS to lookup my ISP's (adelphia) phone number. Some guy picked up the phone in their server room no shit. He answers the phone like it's a internal only line "server room Jim here how can I help?" Me: "ya um I have a problem with my SMTP port can you help out?" Net Admin "How did you get this number! but ya I can help kid"

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#160

Post by snuxoll »

x0x wrote: post #78
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #69

I really wish WHOIS would go away forever. There is absolutely no point to it. If you don’t pay to get your name private, you get SPAMMED to such an incredible degree, it’s absolutely awful. Literally 10+ calls a day, emails voicemails. So you have to buy the “privacy protection” thing, which defeats the whole purpose anyway. All WHOIS does is create an industry of people selling privacy to WHOIS. This whole narrativ…

I agree WHOIS is completely useless! Anyone can fake this info anyway and anyone using there real info can be SWATTED ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting )

Anyone who has my name can find my address, voter registration records are easily searched online in many states. I only bother with WHOIS protections (which Gandi includes at no additional charge) to avoid spam, very few people can claim they are truly safe from swatting.
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