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California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

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Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#151
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> require a total net power draw for the home Not good either. Just let people pay for what they use. Each person can decide how to optimize for his or her needs.

That's basically what we do now, but the trouble is cheap power sources with undesirable externalities win the energy market because consumers want more energy for less money.

Who wants less energy for more money?

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah a tax on electricity would make the most sense.

A tax on carbon fuel would make more sense still. Polluters should pay for their pollution rather than foisting their externalities on others.

Except, how do you get to choose what type of power you buy? What if I live back east and would happily pay for wind or solar but my only option is coal or natural gas?

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#153

Requiring specific technical solutions is rarely a good idea. For example mandating that all new cars have catalytic converters is a common but not very good requirement. The requirement should be formulated as a goal/limit, not a solution. Having one solution required means you can’t innovate to find a cheaper or better solution to the same problem. The answer in this context would be to require a total net power dr…

I tend to agree even though I have solar panels on my own roof. I have clear southern exposure but what about houses that are shaded? Maybe a better use of money in such a case would be better insulation or a geothermal heat pump. Perhaps a points system of some kind, with different energy reduction strategies getting different points.

I also think there should be a progressive component to the requirement. The standards could be looser for a $100K house vs a $1M house or perhaps a progressive tax credit of some kind.

One exciting thing about this is that the costs of solar will be much lower for solar than otherwise. All homebuilders will have to make their designs solar ready, soft costs such as customer acquisition will be lower for solar companies, economies of scale, etc.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#154
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough about the energy market to weigh in on this proposal, but that response is the epitome of the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is presenting a false choice. Getting something like this approved is much easier politically than large solar and wind farms. Sometimes the politically expedient solution is the proper choice over the ideal but politically unrealistic solution.

Politically expedient but dramatically inefficient and less effective is... still dramatically inefficient and less effective. The idea that it's clear that this is "good" relies on a bunch of assumptions about carbon costs that haven't been made. It's not sufficient to say "fossil fuels are bad, solar is good," because then you make stupidly inefficient decisions that limit your overall capacity to tackle the big pr…

The problem is that "dramatically inefficient and less effective" is relative. People are comparing it to some scenario that is simply not going to happen like the state funding large solar and wind farms. Once again, I don't know whether this proposal is good or not. I just think it is a mistake to to oppose proposals that move us in the right direction solely because they don't move us in that direction quick enough or far enough.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#155
post #86

VOX just released a video on the "Duck Curve" phenomenon that arises as a result of renewables[1]. Does anyone here have any insight on what the state is trying to do to mitigate negative downstream affects of the duck curve? [1] https://youtu.be/YYLzss58CLs

In 2013, the CPUC mandated installing about 1.3GWhr of grid energy storage by 2020. Installation of de facto additional capacity appears to be underway. Brief summary: [1] Absent base load or other dispatchable, non-renewable generation, energy storage is the only way to deal with the duck curve.

[1] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-puc-finalizes-ne...

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#156
post #117
post #57

An energy economist on why it's a bad idea: http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/borenste/cecweisenmiller180... . Basically, rooftop solar is less capital-efficient than large solar or wind farms, so we can save more carbon/$ by doing grid-scale generation.

I don't know enough about the energy market to weigh in on this proposal, but that response is the epitome of the perfect is the enemy of the good. It is presenting a false choice. Getting something like this approved is much easier politically than large solar and wind farms. Sometimes the politically expedient solution is the proper choice over the ideal but politically unrealistic solution.

> Sometimes the politically expedient solution is the proper choice over the ideal but politically unrealistic solution.

Why wouldn't that always be the case? What's different about this case where this expedient choice is proper but other's aren't?

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#157
post #29

I feel like the real motivation behind this is that far too many people believe that the hard part of getting solar panels adopted is in finding places to put them. So this law "solves" the problem. But that's never been the real problem. It's arguing about the color of the bike shed when the real mover of solar panels is price and output. Price isn't addressed here and you should expect installing it everywhere will…

I haven't been able to locate the specifics of the bill, but my expectation would be that the regulation doesn't apply if there isn't sufficient sun exposure or rooftop area to justify the solar installation.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#159

Requiring specific technical solutions is rarely a good idea. For example mandating that all new cars have catalytic converters is a common but not very good requirement. The requirement should be formulated as a goal/limit, not a solution. Having one solution required means you can’t innovate to find a cheaper or better solution to the same problem. The answer in this context would be to require a total net power dr…

Likewise the perfect is the enemy of the good. Having an idea of what a perfect regulation would be means that you end up arguing against helpful regulations because they don't meet your standards for "good idea".

Your point isn't incorrect, but it's at best misplaced and mistimed. You should have been yelling about this when the law was being written, not now that it's passed. To those of us who care about the subject, your pedantry is harmful, not helpful.

Re: California Votes to Require Rooftop Solar Power on New Homes

#160
It's not only going to drive home prices up. The shitty electricity monopolies run by Wall Street which have the California Public Utilities Commission completely in their pockets -- monopolies exactly like SDG&E -- will continue their assault on solar and owners of solar through regulatory capture by ratcheting up prices for "low-use tier" customers. Doesn't matter if every house on the block has solar: Local monopolies like SDG&E will scumfuck their way into giving everyone an egregious electricity bill. And they'll do it using blatant regulatory capture through the one organization that's supposed to protect consumers, the inestimably corrupt California Public Utilities Commission.
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