List of screw drives • Hacker News Board

Re: List of screw drives

#151

Post by ken » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

colanderman wrote: post #32

thought_alarm wrote: post #17

In Canada there is a saying: Anyone who doesn't use a Robertson head is just being an asshole.

Unfortunately Robertson bits are rare south of the Canadian border. I have lots of "universal" bit sets, and only one came with a set of Robertsons. (Most did come with square bits, but these are apparently not the same as Robertson, either in dimension or shape.)

Not rare at all in the US, in my experience. I've been doing some construction and tear-down work recently, and it's about 60% Torx, 40% Robertson.

Re: List of screw drives

#152

Post by bluGill » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

micheljansen wrote: post #75

blhack wrote: post #73

As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads. I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point…

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting moveme…

You probably have a cheap flathead screwdriver which has tapered edges. They are significantly more expensive, but a good flathead with edges that are square to the screw slot works much better. (I'm not sure if I described that well)

To make them work even better you can burnish a slight edge one the blade which will dig in and stop slippage.

Re: List of screw drives

#153

Post by skykooler » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

micheljansen wrote: post #75

blhack wrote: post #73

As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads. I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point…

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting moveme…

Another issue with torx is that the driver has to go in mostly square. Flathead or phillips screws can be turned if there's an obstacle directly behind the screw and you need to put the screwdriver in at a slight angle.

Re: List of screw drives

#154

Post by skykooler » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

bdickason wrote: post #48

thought_alarm wrote: post #17

In Canada there is a saying: Anyone who doesn't use a Robertson head is just being an asshole.

Stupid question but I've been doing alot of construction lately and using Torx (25 I think?) for everything. What's the advantage of Robertson screws? (in particular for woodworking)

Robertson are generally cheaper than Torx, for one thing.

Re: List of screw drives

#155

Post by bluGill » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:41 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #63

In the UK construction industry the pozidrive has long been the most used, followed by some special purpose designs using torx. Sometimes kitchens would come with the same crappy phillips screws as flatpack furniture. However belt feed drywall screws were always phillips. In fact most drywall screws were. It always infuriated me if you wanted to put some extras in with a drill (or take some out) that you had to go se…

drywall is the only place where phillips still makes sense: you will never remove them anyway and the cam out feature cams out at the right place.

Note that drywall screws are brittle and worthless for anything other tan drywall even though people use them for almost anything. On the rare case you need to remove drywall you break it out, and then break the screws off.

Re: List of screw drives

#156

Post by ken » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

grzm wrote: post #55

TeMPOraL wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically people using numbers as symbols. Quite annoying.

The history is a little more interesting than that: > Lumber's nominal dimensions are larger than the actual standard dimensions of finished lumber. Historically, the nominal dimensions were the size of the green (not dried), rough (unfinished) boards that eventually became smaller finished lumber through drying and planing (to smooth the wood). Today, the standards specify the final finished dimensions and the mill…

It seems bizarre to me to define the standard 'size' of an item based on some aspect of the manufacturing process that is not part of the final product the user will ever see, or could measure.

Shoe sizes often measure the size of the last, not the foot. One shoe company I've bought from in the past had a warning on their webpage that they use different manufacturing processes for different models, so the same numbered size of two similar-looking shoes actually differ by quite a bit.

Re: List of screw drives

#157

Post by bluGill » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #133

nlawalker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just learned about Nominal Pipe Size, in which the number that precedes the word "inches" does not refer to any actual measurement on the pipe. The specific characteristic of the gas grill pipe hookup on the back of my house that makes it a "half inch pipe" is that it has a .84 inch outer diameter; there is literally nothing about it, including the inner diameter, that could be described by the words "half inch". h…

But it's equivalent (in terms of capacity and robustness) to all other half inch pipes, the first of which had a half inch diameter. Or something like that - the Wikipedia page is complicated. In some ways that's more useful. If you're designing a gas pipe for a house you probably care more about "how much gas can I get through this pipe" and "what is the failure rate" than "will I be able to fit it through a 0.83 in…

No it isn't equivalent to all other pipes in terms of capacity and robustness. It is equivalent to the COMMON pipe today, but you still have to watch because some applications use the same thread/outside diameter but the walls are thicker. Also there are still some old pipes out there that really do have the 1/2 inch inside diameter, they are equivalent in terms of robustness, but obviously not capacity.

Of course I'm being pedantic - in reality you will probably never encounter the exceptions.

Re: List of screw drives

#158

Post by theluketaylor » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

bdickason wrote: post #48

thought_alarm wrote: post #17

In Canada there is a saying: Anyone who doesn't use a Robertson head is just being an asshole.

Stupid question but I've been doing alot of construction lately and using Torx (25 I think?) for everything. What's the advantage of Robertson screws? (in particular for woodworking)

Robertson has a really nice taper that makes one handed operation really easy even when the screw metal isn't magnetic. The large size of the recess also means you can work Robertson screws even after they have been painted or varnished over. Robertson sizing is also incredibly simple so you grab the right tool every time. Each size has a colour name so you can easily call out each size to a tool fetching assistant (always my role as a kid) and there is no ambiguity if the screwdriver is the right size or not.

Not a ton of advantages over Torx for initial assembly, but if you ever need to repair, especially someone else's work, Robertson is second to none.

Re: List of screw drives

#159

Post by Deestan » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

droidist2 wrote: post #146

It's interesting that a lot of these variants were/are being created as security or tamper-proof mechanisms, a real world type of "security through obscurity" (although a different type of obscurity than is usually meant by that phrase). Then it becomes not obscure enough and they make a new type of screw.

Security through inconvenience?

Re: List of screw drives

#160

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 08, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

droidist2 wrote: post #146

It's interesting that a lot of these variants were/are being created as security or tamper-proof mechanisms, a real world type of "security through obscurity" (although a different type of obscurity than is usually meant by that phrase). Then it becomes not obscure enough and they make a new type of screw.

[deleted]