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Linus Torvalds became US citizen

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Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#151

Post by jacquesm »

kiuyhjk wrote: post #129
davidw wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very much a British (actually English) idea that countries are eternal and inviolate. France is pretty nationalistic too, no? They're one of the harshest countries in Europe in terms of minority languages, if I recall correctly.

But only since about 1880. Before that 'France' was only about 20% of the country and only about 20% spoke French. There was a huge effort to create a single nation, similar to the unification of Germany and Italy around the same time. Their attitude to the language rather shows that - nobody in England thinks English needs 'protecting'.

English is 'open source', French is 'the cathedral'.

It shows in their proliferation patterns too.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#152

Post by _delirium »

kiuyhjk wrote: post #150
_delirium wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the case with my family, at least. My mom was a green-card holder for almost 40 years until she finally got her citizenship a few years ago, and there was never any real hassle. She eventually got her citizenship mostly to simplify retirement planning (if she and my dad, who's a U.S.-born citizen, had different citizenships, apparently things get complicated with things like pensions and survivorship). I g…

Never had a green card - but going in and out of the USA on a european country passport with an H1-B was always a hassle. Especially one return from a conference where the minimum-wage-moron on passport control didn't understand the concept of visas (to be fair he had a limited understanding of the concept of passports or even other countries) and allowed me in for 24 hours which I spent queuing at LA's delightful im…

Ah yeah, I could imagine that. Foreign passport + visa puts you in the "foreigner" line, even if it's a long-term visa, which is usually slower and typically has more suspicious / less helpful staff. Green card holders get to go through the "U.S. Citizens & Permanent Residents" line, which is a bit friendlier and faster.

(Not that I disagree that the whole setup is ridiculous and probably doesn't meaningfully add to security.)

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#153

Post by kiuyhjk »

jacquesm wrote: post #151
kiuyhjk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But only since about 1880. Before that 'France' was only about 20% of the country and only about 20% spoke French. There was a huge effort to create a single nation, similar to the unification of Germany and Italy around the same time. Their attitude to the language rather shows that - nobody in England thinks English needs 'protecting'.

English is 'open source', French is 'the cathedral'. It shows in their proliferation patterns too.

Whats the quote?

Other languages borrow foreign words - English lures them into dark alleys and goes through their pockets for any grammer they might have.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#154

Post by pbhjpbhj »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #51
compay wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the USA does not require that.

yes it does ... verbally ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_%28United_St... But it doesn't mean that you actually renounce citizenship of your home country.

>But it doesn't mean that you actually renounce citizenship of your home country.

Well from the linked Wikipedia page it does mean that you actually renounce citizenship. It's pretty clear in having you state that is the case. If you actually don't then you are lying.

>"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

For example if your former country required you to submit a form renouncing citizenship / sovereignty then taking the Oath and not having done that seems a highly dishonourable thing to do (ie IMO you're lying).

From that Oath (granted my first viewing of it in full) it seems that no truthful person could become a citizen of both America and some other place unless they were American first and no longer made that Oath on any occasion.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#155

Post by exit »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #71
scrrr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is also true for the city you are in, the neighborhood and the street. I'm not historian but I suppose throughout history the space that we call home became bigger and bigger as time went by. Perhaps first it was a cave, at some point it was a village, then it was a city and eventually it was a country. I guess what I mean is that eventually countries will go away. And calling them "old-school" was ass…

I don't see that happening ever. Not unless the human condition changes significantly. I currently see it more likely that we will end up with more countries, not less countries. If countries "go away", what do you suggest they would be replaced by?

what needs to go away is this notion of nationality, bestowed by the coincidence of birth.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#156

Post by exit »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #91
scrrr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like the European Union. It's not always pretty but it works. Perhaps after that it will be planets (if you like Futurama), or religions, philosophies or even brands. :) Who knows.

The EU isn't a country though, and it will never be one; different cultures have different values and often don't want to live under the same set of laws. Personally, I think this is a good thing. If you're oppressed under one countries set of laws at least you always have the option of leaving.

the eu is very much like a single country in some respects.

> different cultures have different values and often don't want to live under the same set of laws.

different regions of america have different cultures and values, and yet you wouldn't question the status of the us.

> If you're oppressed under one countries set of laws at least you always have the option of leaving.

actually, no. it is precisely because of this offensive notion of citizenship that people are NOT free to leave the country they find themselves in.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#157

Post by amackera »

jeffreyg wrote: post #136
lanstein wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. (It's a common semi-noob illusion.)" http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

granted. but in my 276 days since creating my account (I've been reading for over a year), this is the first thread I've actually been let down by, where there are highly upvoted posts which add zero value to the discussion.

Man, it's the Internet.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#158

Post by dagw »

portman wrote: post #46
forinti wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don't you have to renounce all other allegiances? Uruguayan law says that even if you renounce your uruguayan citizenship, you still keep it. I think this was put in place exactly because lots of Uruguayans were leaving for the USA (lots of Uruguayans is something like 50).

I'm a dual citizen of the UK and US. Among my close friends, I know Canadian, Israeli, and Australian dual-citizens. I've never heard of having to "renounce all other allegiances". (Note: it's entirely possible that there is some obscure method of obtaining US citizenship that requires it; but that's not the norm.)

If you're born a dual Citizen then it's not a problem. If on the other hand a non-US citizen applies to become a US-citizen then they will be asked to "renounce all other allegiances". However depending on what your other "allegiances" are the US will not bother too much about following up on it.

Also if you volunteer (as opposed to being conscripted) for military duty in your non-US nations then the US can kick up a fuss.

But basically if you're a dual citizen with a nation friendly to the US then you really have nothing to worry about.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#159

Post by viraptor »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #143
gojomo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to bring it all back around: that an exceptional person who could easily choose to live in comfort in dozens of countries, chooses to live in the USA, is a legitimate source of pride for the locals. The number one product of a legal jurisdiction is providing a desirable place to live. The political system is designed to make citizens feel like the local jurisdiction is 'their' product. When your target market emb…

It must be a cultural thing then. I can't personally imagine ever being proud of someone moving to the UK (where I live). I understand that Americans place a much higher value on patriotism than most of the developed World though. It's bigger than that though. The whole concept of feeling proud about something to which you had no input seems very strange to me.

> to which you had no input

That depends. I assume you are the most google'able Mike from Bath Spa. I stayed in UK to finish Bath Uni, so lecturers from there could probably feel proud of creating an environment where I felt welcome enough to stay for a longer time. It was their input into my environment and education and it did make a difference, because I still live in Bath.

Then again, this would be a personal situation and not "I feel proud, because some known guy wants to live in my country".

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#160

Post by dtegart »

tokenadult wrote: post #42
duke_sam wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also has security clearance implications. Also if he moves back to Finland but remains a US citizen won't the IRS still be able to go after him for tax?

Yes, United States citizens are liable for taxation on their worldwide income (unless there is a tax treaty between the United States and the other country in question).

You still need to file tax returns, even if you are under the limit to prove that you owe no tax.
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