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Walking While Black

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Re: Walking While Black

#151

Post by spraak »

gamblor956 wrote: post #138
spraak wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused about the down votes here. What isn't true about this?

Because the Constitution doesn't mention race. It merely states that a non-free individual was counted as 3/5 of a free individual for purposes of the population census, which was used to determine proportionate representation in Congress. Native Americans were excluded from the census entirely if they weren't tax paying residents of a state.

What was written vs what was implemented... in the context of that time, who else would have been a non-free person besides non-whites?

Re: Walking While Black

#152

Post by braythwayt »

diddid wrote: post #141
braythwayt wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you are correct that there is a missing element to the analogy, and this is it: The woman lies dead in the murder case. When the rapper was pulled over, there was no case of a Ferrari stolen by a dark-skinned man. The police were not acting on a tip that the rapper was smuggling narcotics in his car. They stopped him for driving while black. If we want to add the missing link, we then say that the police, knowing…

I also think your explanation here isn't exactly what happened, at least from what I gathered. What I read it as whas "We stop all people in expensive cars at this checkpoint and validate their income." So society wasn't ok discriminating against him because he was black, they were ok discriminating against him because he was in a nice car.

Stopping all cars is absolutely a different thing. Of course, if it only happens in certain neighbourhoods, one might pause, but here in Toronto, for example, we have drinking-and-driving sweeps where the police set up checkpoints and stop all cars regardless of occupant or car.

That seems reasonable.

Of course, here in Toronto they also like to "card" people in certain neighbourhoods of certain colours, and there is an ongoing set of protests against how they choose to implement this practice.

But I am personally ok with a certain amount of checkpointing.

Re: Walking While Black

#153

Post by AnimalMuppet »

faitswulff wrote: post #143
mcherm wrote: post #94

So the societal patterns this article describes are true, and they are not acceptable. As a white male who lives in this society, I have one question: What can I do to help change this?

This is a common question, but as a person of color, I would push back on it - this question has the effect of adding more work on the backs of the marginalized, underrepresented, and oppressed to educate you. My personal answer would be to ask that you read, make it a habit to educate yourself before relying on the labor of people of color, and keep an open mind whenever you have kneejerk responses to anything racia…

I acknowledge your point. And yet, I would suggest you should reconsider, for two reasons:

First, it feels (to me, at least) like someone is genuinely wanting to be helpful, and you throw it back in their face. Your point is valid, but you could be turning away potential allies.

Second, you are opening the door to people thinking, "Right, we white people will figure out how to solve all the black peoples' problems" - with all the paternalism that implies. I recognize that you are very much not saying that. But it seems likely that someone will take it that way, either because of malice or just because they are bent toward taking it that way.

Re: Walking While Black

#155

Post by UncleMeat »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #122
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm sure that the passersby had data about bicycle thief demographics that they looked at before they chose how to react.

Statistically speaking, if 100% of bike thieves are male (in a certain location) then the inherent, and justifiable, bias from the population would be towards males. No data lookup needed.

Do you believe that people hold accurate beliefs about the gender and race distribution of bike thieves?

Re: Walking While Black

#156

Post by sangnoir »

sangnoir wrote: post #134
RobertRoberts wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the raw data about these types of crime say though? I lived near a university and had multiple bikes stolen. If the data points to a demographic in that area, for example where 0% of bikes are stolen by women, why would people in that area react if a woman is working with her bike? Raw data may disagree with you, but it's impartial and unbiased. (unless you want to argue the collection and recording of data…

If it's the same clip I watched, one of the (white) male passers-by asks what the (young, white) lady is doing and she says outright that she's stealing the bike. He proceeds to offer his help!

I got the link to the video[1], and I misremembered: multiple people offer to help steal the bike on different occcasions, wtf!

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg

Re: Walking While Black

#157

Post by setr »

sangnoir wrote: post #134
RobertRoberts wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the raw data about these types of crime say though? I lived near a university and had multiple bikes stolen. If the data points to a demographic in that area, for example where 0% of bikes are stolen by women, why would people in that area react if a woman is working with her bike? Raw data may disagree with you, but it's impartial and unbiased. (unless you want to argue the collection and recording of data…

If it's the same clip I watched, one of the (white) male passers-by asks what the (young, white) lady is doing and she says outright that she's stealing the bike. He proceeds to offer his help!

Then it's not really a question of some implicit bias is it... sounds more like ulterior motives

Re: Walking While Black

#158

Post by RobertRoberts »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #150
RobertRoberts wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically speaking, if 100% of bike thieves are male (in a certain location) then the inherent, and justifiable, bias from the population would be towards males. No data lookup needed.

How many people in that area know that 100% of bike thieves are male? I sure don't know such statistics for my area. That's the "data lookup" that's needed - to make decisions based on statistics, you have to know the statistics.

I guess nobody knows, but what is the explanation for people's reaction? If the town only had women bike thieves, do you think the experiment would have gone the same?

Re: Walking While Black

#159

Post by RobertRoberts »

UncleMeat wrote: post #155
RobertRoberts wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically speaking, if 100% of bike thieves are male (in a certain location) then the inherent, and justifiable, bias from the population would be towards males. No data lookup needed.

Do you believe that people hold accurate beliefs about the gender and race distribution of bike thieves?

I think every single person has biases, even you.

But also, I think that it wouldn't matter the race or sex, if someone was in your home who you did not invite, or know them. And based on their behavior, skin color, clothing, would determine if you said "hi, you must be my daughter's friend?" or "What are you doing in my house, I am calling the police!"

But no one wants to admit they make judgements about anything, because that's sexist/racist/something-ist.

Re: Walking While Black

#160

Post by faitswulff »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #153
faitswulff wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common question, but as a person of color, I would push back on it - this question has the effect of adding more work on the backs of the marginalized, underrepresented, and oppressed to educate you. My personal answer would be to ask that you read, make it a habit to educate yourself before relying on the labor of people of color, and keep an open mind whenever you have kneejerk responses to anything racia…

I acknowledge your point. And yet, I would suggest you should reconsider, for two reasons: First, it feels (to me, at least) like someone is genuinely wanting to be helpful, and you throw it back in their face. Your point is valid, but you could be turning away potential allies. Second, you are opening the door to people thinking, "Right, we white people will figure out how to solve all the black peoples' problems" -…

I will not reconsider telling people that they're asking victims for additional emotional labor. The very attitude is poisonous. Instead of "take over and solve the peoples' problems" it is, like UX research, mostly an act of listening to people of color, not of declaring themselves the arbiters of the solutions.

All it takes is letting go of one's ego to center the conversation around listening to people of color instead of deciding to take control of the conversation or of their "salvation."

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