I’m all for this move. If amtrak is to succeed, it has to do so on the basis of efficiency and service. If people aren’t willing to pay the prices neccessary to cover the cost of food, and unions are unwilling to reduce the cost of production, then we’re at an impasse and should cancel the service in order to free up operational capital for running more service and improving service in other ways. Trust me, people will find ways to eat! Making food a money sinkhole is contrary to history and experience. It makes sense as a loss leader, not when the system as a whole is a loss.
Want airline food? Take Amtrak
151–160 of 225 posts
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#152I took the Empire Builder a couple weeks ago, and the Lakeshore Limited + California Zephyr last year. As much as I enjoyed the trips, I have to admit that they longer lines are incredibly impractical. Amtrak is operating at a huge loss per passenger ($32 on average)[1], and the prices aren't even that much cheaper than flying. It's viable for people with more time than money, but most of the passengers are just weir…
Huge loss? They cover 94% of their operating costs. The federal government only provides the remaining 6%. What if a specific National Park, arguably of equal value to the Amtrak lines, generated 94% of its own money?
Hmm, looks like the data I cited was a bit dated. Amtrak mentions 94% for their 2016 fiscal year [1], which isn't bad.
[1] https://media.amtrak.com/2016/11/amtrak-delivers-strong-fy-2...
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#153I have traveled Amtrak quite a lot - across the country on the Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr. And many other routes. I think the food is usually decent - the veggie burger is reliably edible. What I can say is terrible - and what has caused me to cease using Amtrak - is the presence of the DEA. In case you haven't experienced this, the DEA sometimes raids specific sleeper cars at a station, d…
And here I thought the sleep was poor back in steerage!
It's interesting that one of those articles mentions ABQ. One of my times on the Southwest Chief, the guy in the seat next to me was in the "import export business", and upgraded to a sleeper car on the spot. Some jackboots got on at ABQ and started mildly harassing passengers looking for this guy. He was still on the train afterwards and insisted they had only wanted to talk (but was obviously being coy, flirting with the train attendant).
Given that he was scarce enough to need to find en route, but yet somehow not scarce enough to take into custody, I had been wondering if he was some kind of informant and the train was a plausible way to get him alone to talk. But now I'm left wondering if I had just witnessed an early version of this armed robbery scheme.
I hope you at least attempt to sue that blatantly criminal organization as well as your individual assailants. Although reading such accounts I can't help but feel what they really deserve is the gallows.
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google say it takes 31h to drive between the two -- any idea why the Amtrak takes twice that time?
If you're driving alone -- a reasonable assumption if you'd be in the market for a train -- a 31-hour "Google Maps" roadtrip takes 3 days, assuming ~10 hours of "map-time" driving, followed by 6+ hours of civilized sleep. The biggest constraint is "civilized" sleep, which is best had in a real bed at a real hotel, whose locations are constrained by settlements and whose typical availability hours begin at 15:00 local…
There are very few parts of the U.S. in which you'd travel more than an hourr or two between hotels. Virtually all towns have at least some services.
Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, possibly the Dakotas, are principle exceptions in the lower 48, though this means an upper bound on this interval, at least along principle rotes. An example is the 75 miles along I-94 between Buffalo and Cheyenne, Wyoming, with no highway exits or onramps at all. There are, however, services, at either end.
Alaska is a domain unto itself.
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much does the US subsidize air travel via FAA, airport subsidies, etc? What about road subsidies? It’s like somehow rail has to be profitable on its own, but not bus or air.
I don't know the numbers, but I'd be shocked if air and bus lost as much money per trip as trains. Part of what makes the train appealing for the longer rides is that if you're taking coach half of the car is empty and you know you won't have to sit next to anyone.
Keep in mind that bus travel is extremely heavily subsidized in the form of the government handling maintenance of the national highway system
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is train travel so much more expensive? Fewer tickets being sold comparatively?
Also, maintaining tracks is expensive, especially in a large country like USA, as compared to just maintaining two airports. Kinda makes me wonder how much money is spent on road maintenance that we are not thinking as a cost while driving.
> Kinda makes me wonder how much money is spent on road maintenance that we are not thinking as a cost while driving
Here in Japan all the highways are privatized and are supposed to be self-funded by tolls. Where I live pretty much any road trip over 45 minutes you're likely to hit a toll.
All tallied up (gas+tolls), driving 3-4 hours costs about as much as taking the 1hr 40minute bullet train (which isn't cheap - about $90 one-way). Driving only becomes economical when you're 3+ people in the car.
I imagine there would be riots in the US if the interstates all started charging tolls.
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#157I've taken the California Zephyr between Chicago and SF a couple times now, it's a wonderful experience. 2 1/2 days of solitude from a world with increasingly few remote corners. If you're at all interested, I recommend riding soon. These admittedly impractical long-distance routes are going to be the first to go when budget cuts necessitate it.
Google say it takes 31h to drive between the two -- any idea why the Amtrak takes twice that time?
The rights-of-way are shared with, and subservient to, freight rail, and the roads themselves are owned by the freight lines.
Top speed is limited to 79 mph, and is lower in many areas.
As with software development, delays tend to be additive, and not made up.
Any service disruption (track, equipment, weather, accidents, crews) means hours, occasionally (though fairly rarely) days of delays.
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#158One thing I remember about the dining car is that if you’re traveling alone you sit with other people in a 4-person booth. It’s been at least one way to get away from staring at a screen/window alone and talk with people you may not normally encounter. This said, maybe Amtrak is trying to optimize for the people that ride it - from my west coast anecdata it usually skewed to lower-income people needing to get somewhe…
I'm a West Coast, medium-income, short and overnight traveler, who doesn't work for the government, isn't an adventurer/photographer, and doesn't fear of flying. I ride Amtrak frequently (more than fly). I rather like the Amtrak steak. I think your model is wrong.
Thanks for the input. My model was just anecdata from riding a few times. Realized my negative sentiments are all from overnight trips.
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't disagree with your comment, but the thing that often gets lost in these discussions is that at least for the Empire Builder, people generally aren't using it to go from Chicago to Portland or Seattle. Sure, a flight from Chicago to Seattle would be much faster and cheaper. But what about getting from Minot to Whitefish? Or Spokane to Wenatchee? I personally use it 2-3 times a week to go between Bingen and Por…
Whoah, another Hacker News reader from Bingen/White Salmon?
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of gorge residents on here
Re: Want airline food? Take Amtrak
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I definitely met a bunch of people I wouldn't have otherwise had a chance to talk to. To elaborate on this, Amtrak staff will seat you with strangers to fill up tables. Kind of excruciating for an introvert, but looking back I had some good conversations.
On the first night of my last trip I was really bummed out that they didn't sit me next to the group of Amish folks. Instead I had to eat dinner with a family from New Jersey :P
Amish folks take trains? Isnt that against their principles?