Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#151

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

e12e wrote: post #124

rco8786 wrote: post #39

Why is this newsworthy? Did people think Facebook somehow didn't have access to what was being sent across its own platform?

Well, we had this thing called phone companies. In the beginning, many places, the switchboard operator would listen in. Then switchboards became mechanical and the industry regulated as a utility. And while it was technically easy for phone companies to listen, it was illegal for them to do so. (and nsa built a closet so it could listen in illegally, and got caught, and faced no consequences beyond an astronomical b…

>In The US there seems the trend is if you transport it, you get to data mine it (as long as "it" is digital, and "you" isn't a post service or phone company - not sure about isps).

I may not be 100% correct, but the history of this is related to liability. Telcos don't want to be held liable for crimes committed using their services (e.g. planning a bank robbery over the phone). They do not want the burden of monitoring calls to catch these people. So in exchange for that kind of immunity, they had to give up the right to listen in on calls.

I don't know the legal status for FB and the like, but I imagine it would be similar. As Facebook needs ads for money, they would rather not get that kind of a deal. As they decline immunity, they likely can be held liable for crimes planned on their services. Hence, they need to monitor.

Obviously, IANAL.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#152

Post by dvtv75 » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

I just showed this to a friend of mine, who turned very white.

It seems that she's been sending some rather saucy texts, plus a topless photo or two and a few panty shots.

She went straight back to Facebook, though, and really doesn't seem to care that she's feeding the beast..

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#153

Post by taneq » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

foobaw wrote: post #81

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #23

When our daughter was born, and I sent an announcement via GMail, I started seeing ads for diapers. After that, I assume anything I'm doing on the internet is being data mined for advertising or some other source of revenue.

Okay, but couldn't this be good for some people? If they see cheap diaper ads, they might be motivated to buy them. I know the implication is negative in terms of privacy, but it has its benefits if it could actually solve problems and provide value to the majority.

That's the 'for' argument, made by advertisers. Oh, we're just trying to more effectively let you know about the best deals for all the stuff you need!

The problem is, though, that any form of bargaining (and sales is bargaining) is an information game. The more they know about you, the worse a deal you will get. One recent real example was the advertisers targeting women on their periods. Taking it further, imagine a liquor company finding out that you've just lost a family member and flooding you with ads for alcohol. The more they know about you, the worse you get screwed.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#154

Post by lz400 » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #148

lz400 wrote: post #144

Is the recent attack on Facebook a coordinated effort to kill Zuck's office run? Don't get me wrong, I think all the flak Facebook is getting is deserved but there's little in the revelations coming lately after Cambridge Analytica that is really new. However the media backlash is a lot, a lot bigger and more sustained that I thought it'd be, even here in HN. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but could it be partia…

I think his sort of awkward introvert style already marked him as not much of a threat politically. How would he do in a debate? Thus, not buying a conspiracy to keep him out of politics. It shouldn't be this way, but charisma is a base requirement in politics.

I don't disagree but listening to the absolute nonsensical, lie riddled incoherent rambling of the current POTUS makes me believe I don't really know what charisma is.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#155

Post by paxys » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

lz400 wrote: post #144

Is the recent attack on Facebook a coordinated effort to kill Zuck's office run? Don't get me wrong, I think all the flak Facebook is getting is deserved but there's little in the revelations coming lately after Cambridge Analytica that is really new. However the media backlash is a lot, a lot bigger and more sustained that I thought it'd be, even here in HN. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but could it be partia…

There is no way Zuckerberg was ever going to hold any political office. Why on earth would he even want to? He has WAY more power and influence simply by controlling the Facebook empire and being worth $60+ billion.

All this talk started because he hired a top Obama campaign manager as a lobbyist for his foundation, and somehow people got "he obviously wants to be President" out of it.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#156

Post by tyingq » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

lz400 wrote: post #154

tyingq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his sort of awkward introvert style already marked him as not much of a threat politically. How would he do in a debate? Thus, not buying a conspiracy to keep him out of politics. It shouldn't be this way, but charisma is a base requirement in politics.

I don't disagree but listening to the absolute nonsensical, lie riddled incoherent rambling of the current POTUS makes me believe I don't really know what charisma is.

It's resonating with enough people, if not you and I :)

Believe it or not, he was, at one time a fairly eloquent speaker: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4544001/donald-trump-1991-hou...

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#157

Post by daodedickinson » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 2:00 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #156

lz400 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree but listening to the absolute nonsensical, lie riddled incoherent rambling of the current POTUS makes me believe I don't really know what charisma is.

It's resonating with enough people, if not you and I :) Believe it or not, he was, at one time a fairly eloquent speaker: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4544001/donald-trump-1991-hou...

He used to appeal to his Ivy peers and clearly had to put in a lot of effort to change to a style that appealed to the broadest number of people.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#158

Post by tristanj » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 2:05 AM UTC

dudus wrote: post #135

tristanj wrote: post #3

Old news. Facebook has been doing this since at least 2009, I recall seeing an article where Facebook censored all links (including those in private messaegs) to thepiratebay.org [0] They also crawl links you share in private messages to grab the title, intro, and favicon to generate that clickable widget link thing. [0] https://torrentfreak.com/facebook-blocks-all-pirate-bay-link...

This is not old news and the examples you provided are not proof that they were doing it prior. It is perfectly possible to crawl pages to get titles and FavIcons client side or using a web service that don't necessarily keep a log of these requests. Same thing for censoring links. You can have a static list of disallowed domains and do all the filtering client side or have a web service that given a link returns tru…

I have much better links. Here's one from 2012: Facebook scans chats and posts for criminal activity https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-scans-chats-and-posts-for...

The program probably started a year earlier than that, since in 2011, Facebook announced they were using a tool called PhotoDNA to scan every image shared for underage content. https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/meet-the-safe...

Regarding how Facebook crawls links shared in Messenger, there's this medium story I saw on HN a while back https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11875419

In that medium story, the Facebook devs claim accessing privately shared messenger links is a publicly documented behavior, citing the Facebook Crawler Docs. They quote: "The first time someone shares a link, the Facebook crawler will scrape the HTML at that URL to gather, cache and display info about the content on Facebook like a title, description, and thumbnail image." https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/craw...

I would update my original comment if I could, however the edit period has passed.

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#159

Post by xobs » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 2:10 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #59

djsumdog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, very old news. They also blocked URLs to competitors claiming the links were spam. Even if you legit posted the link, Facebook didn't notify you the message didn't send. It just failed silently.

> They also blocked URLs to competitors claiming the links were spam. Even if you legit posted the link, Facebook didn't notify you the message didn't send. It just failed silently. Any links to more reading on this?

WhatsApp used to do this [1], and WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. They've since stopped.

[1] https://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09/09/whatsapp-is-blockin...

Re: Facebook Scans What You Send Other People on Messenger App

#160

Post by galactose » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 2:33 AM UTC

lz400 wrote: post #144

Is the recent attack on Facebook a coordinated effort to kill Zuck's office run? Don't get me wrong, I think all the flak Facebook is getting is deserved but there's little in the revelations coming lately after Cambridge Analytica that is really new. However the media backlash is a lot, a lot bigger and more sustained that I thought it'd be, even here in HN. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but could it be partia…

To me, it seems more recently that these larger negative stories tend to linger around. I think it's less related to malicious intent, and more, news websites attempting to capture more of the residual interest with a barrage of derivative articles (and succeeding).