Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#151

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:16 PM UTC

TFortunato wrote: post #80

LyndsySimon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

Sorry to be "that guy", but could you explain what you mean by metal content being negligible unless you dry hit? I assumed when people were talking about metal content, they were referring to metal vapors from the heating elements or something, but I'll admit that I don't know enough about this, or what a dry hit is vs. normal use, or how we know when metal vapors or whatever are/aren't a concern. (I feel so old rig…

[deleted]

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#152

Post by ben509 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #114

bspn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that for traditional tobacco smokers it is likely a net-positive, and it is potentially a tool they can use to reduce their nicotine intake and even eliminate it altogether. The concern with the latest explosion in schools, however, is the significant number of kids getting addicted to nicotine who may not otherwise have tried smoking traditional cigarettes. The nicotine level in a Juul pod is incredibly high…

> The concern [is] kids getting addicted to nicotine Non-snarky question: why is that a concern? Nicotine -- in the absence of burning tobacco -- isn't bad for you.

Reading between the lines of the various pieces on vaping I've seen, there seem to be two common assumptions at work: 1. vaping is like cigarettes, therefore must be unhealthy or 2. this is a new substance being ingested and therefore must be unhealthy.

I'm entirely supportive of people who want to study this stuff, but the impulse that any new product should be illegal until it's been proven safe to fairly arbitrary standards seems unreasonable to me. And I think there's a bit of a baptist-bootlegger coalition between the medical researchers and tobacco companies.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#153

Post by verylittlemeat » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

julienmarie wrote: post #32

Smoking per se has been a behaviour for thousands of years. As much as there will always be effects on health, vaping has been a god send for me. I have been smoking 1+ pack a day for nearly 20 years, until I switched to vaping 9 months ago. I feel incomparably better. My resting heart rate went down by 20%, I breathe better, am way less tired, and it doesn't stink . Plus, there is a geeky aspect with what we call RD…

I always find it interesting to remember that smoking tobacco was unknown in Europe until the colonization of the Americas.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#154

Post by mathgeek » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

lemonberry wrote: post #9

neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

My father's been smoking for over 50 years. I got him to switch to mostly vaping last year. The difference in his health has been profound. It almost eliminated his coughing, increased his ability to walk distances. His doctor was amazed at his last checkup. She said she couldn't recommend it to patients due to the uncertainties, but encouraged him to keep doing whatever it is that he's doing. Edit: I bought him the…

> I don't doubt that the best course of action is to quit altogether, but a 50+ year addiction is pretty difficult to quit. It can be done but you really have to want it. I don't think my dad really wanted to quit. I know that seems silly, but given his circumstances I can understand.

Much as your physical health is probably best by quitting, mental health certainly has to be considered as well.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#155

Post by corobo » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

philip1209 wrote: post #142

> Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion I find this title confusing - I thought it meant that vapes were physically exploding.

Yeah that is exactly why I clicked into the comments

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#156

Post by gowld » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

TheBeardKing wrote: post #109

>The 2017 Monitoring the Future survey on adolescent drug use found that 11 percent of 12th graders, 8.5 percent of 10th graders and 3.5 percent of 8th graders had vaped nicotine in the previous 30 days. Of those high school seniors, 24 percent reported vaping daily, which the study defined as vaping on 20 or more occasions in the previous 30 days I'm sorry, but is [1] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact…

> 8.0% reported in 2016 that they smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days—a decrease from 15.8% in 2011.

The CDC report doesn't report clearly on the overlap between modalities, but if e-cigarette uptake is cancelling all the reductions in non-e-cigarettes, it's quite alarming that nicotine consumption isn't being reduced as previously though.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#157

Post by gowld » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:25 PM UTC

_m8fo wrote: post #3

Who does this stuff even benefit? The seemingly arbitrary lines drawn between marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs" is so weird. So much moral righteousness.

> marijuana, alcohol, tobacco and other "drugs"

are all unhealthy for kids.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#158

Post by ben509 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #78

Reading these comments its obvious that Vaping is forcing us to confront an uncomfortable truth. Vaping might not be that much healthier for the consumer , but its widely popular because its so much nicer for the non smoker . How much of the campaign to stop smoking was out of concern for the health of future generations? And how much of it was out of the annoyance of second hand smoke? Even if Vaping proves to be eq…

Why is it so important that our motivations be concern for future generations? We're people, too.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#159

Post by Domenic_S » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #128

Domenic_S wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The concern [is] kids getting addicted to nicotine Non-snarky question: why is that a concern? Nicotine -- in the absence of burning tobacco -- isn't bad for you.

I don't think it's quite that clear – however, I think it is considered clear that nicotine is nowhere near as harmful as tobacco smoke.

We currently think that nicotine has a protective effect on the brain. Research is spotty but promising. Google “nicotine protects brain” to get started!

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#160

Post by Jare » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

lemonberry wrote: post #56

bungie4 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is a stimulant, not a depressant. Do you take Meth to 'even out'? Me, I just quit smoking entirely 3 years ago.

The biggest lie of cigarette smoking: that it relaxes you. When you're a nicotine addict and crave it you get anxious, nicotine fixes that.

In my experience, when I had regular or constant anxiety, the nicotine crave blended with it but smoking calmed both. It is very possible that a non-nicotine method of relaxation would have also worked on both, but those are rarer and/or less quick and convenient.

That was one of the appeals of smoking.