SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#151

Post by teh_klev » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

schiffern wrote: post #131

Animats wrote: post #38

Space-X was supposed to be building their own launch facility in Brownsville, TX, and it was supposed to be open now, but it's still just a vacant lot. They brought in some tracking antennas and some dirt fill; that's it.[1] [1] http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/local/spacex-progress-...

>They brought in... some dirt fill; that's it. They're doing soil surcharging, so that's intentional. Don't want the castle sinking into the swamp (it's on 300+ feet of silt[1]). The steps for soil surcharging are: 1. Pile extra dirt on top of your fill. 2. Wait a sufficient amount of time (usually months/years; it's important to wait long enough[2]) as the dirt compresses and squeezes out water. 3. Remove the extra…

I didn't know this was a thing. Thanks for enlightening me :)

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#152

Post by jernfrost » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

chisleu wrote: post #141

lambda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

IMHO, states should be prepared for federal governments being "shutdown" or dissolved. What we call shutdowns are not real shut downs. Military doesn't go on leave. They still do their same job. Many key workers do their same jobs as well. Some workers end up staying home and then later are usually paid for the time they missed at work anyway. #FreeVacation It is a contrived emergency so the political parties can try…

chisleu I've contemplated this as well. I don't really believe in big political unions. However there are major practical problems dissolving a union which needs to be addressed, which people who favor dissolving a union seldom address.

It is very hard to have open borders between states if there is no federal authority. It is also hard for a state to run their own economic policy without their own currency and central bank.

Already American states struggle with running different welfare policies. You see how red states e.g. a freeloading on blue state welfare programs, by dumping their poor people in blue states and enticing companies created in innovative states like Calefornia by luring them with low taxes.

I personally think it would be nice if we could have a wide selection of countries and states following completely different policies. It is good with experimentation and trying new things. In practice however this is difficult, as somebody can just freeload on everybody elses work by creating a tax paradise.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#153

Post by rlanday » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #129

SiempreViernes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta be a weird person not to check the outcome on the news before going to work since they've been plenty forewarned. I guess someone living close by, that woke up late and doesn't have radio, tv, or internet available for a quick check could plausibly skip over calling someone to find out before jogging over.

Weird persons exist, just like persons who don't include checking news during their breakfast routine, then there's also a subset of weird people who might just like doing their job and don't mind working that one Saturday without pay.

It’s not legal for non-essential federal workers to choose to work for free:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/01/federal_worke...

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#154

Post by someguydave » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

ygra wrote: post #76

mikejb wrote: post #50

This is easily blamed on the shutdown, but it isn't that simple: Falcon Heavy static fire has been postponed numerous times. On Tuesday (Jan 16th), it was cancelled once again, but with no new target test date. That indicates that SpaceX is still working on the rocket/pad. I didn't find information on when they'd be ready again, but blaming a delay on Falcon Heavy's static fire test on the Government Shutdown is only…

They did go through with a Wet Dress Rehearsal on Saturday, though, which already validates many things just prior to engine ignition. So if they were confident to continue with a static fire on Monday and there were no other issues known I'd say it's fair to blame it on the shutdown. Of course, more issues could arise during the test, but we won't know now.

Maybe SpaceX knew that this would be a golden opportunity to to blame their own problems on the government and therefore set the stage for blaming them...

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#155

Post by jernfrost » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #56

jmadsen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Of course, this inefficiency plays well into the politics of one of the parties, who hold a religious belief that private enterprise is always more efficient than government" Which is beyond ironic to anyone who's worked in the corporate world, but I guess that's for another thread. This idea they have that private enterprise naturally evolves toward the most efficient system is laughable.

>>Which is beyond ironic to anyone who's worked in the corporate world, but I guess that's for another thread. >>This idea they have that private enterprise naturally evolves toward the most efficient system is laughable. Work in private industry AND government and you might find the comparison a bit more apt, not that I'm a Republican.

In my native Norway, we let the public sector and private sector compete to perform public services. I can't say that I've ever seen that the private sector has a clear advantage, otherwise they would already have taken over running everything.

In fact I think I know of far more cases of private companies doing considerably worse job than what the public sector did.

My city recently switched to a private company for garbage collection e.g. It was an absolutely horrible mess. My home town had a care home for mentally ill people, that got taken over by a private company. They promised to run it cheaper than the government. Except they totally messed up everything. They lost a lot of talented people, who quit due to their poor management. Then they demanded to be paid more than the public solution had charged to do the same job.

So not only were they worse, they were also more expensive. Sure these are just anecdotes. But it puts a hole in the claim that the private sector is ALWAYS better. To disprove the notion of always you only need a single counter example.

I am not against private companies. Just let them compete on equal terms and prove that they can do the job better. Unfortunately our conservative government is often so ideologically tied to the idea of private always being better than they push for private sector solutions even when a company is not able to demonstrate that they do a better job.

In fact almost every case I've seen where a private company does the job cheaper, it is because they give their employees worse conditions and salaries, not because of smarter organization and management.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#156

Post by fhood » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #130

freeflight wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Officially yes, but I can imagine there being some bureaucratic delay until it's in full effect/everybody got the news. Not a lot of time between midnight Friday and Saturday. In German radio news, the US correspondent explained that the weekend should still be fine, with full effects of the shutdown beginning around Monday with the new week.

That’s oversimplified. Some agencies continue to operate for a bit because they have enough money stashed to do so. For example, the Smithsonian stayed open over the weekend and is apparently open today as well. The EPA will stay open for another week because they apparently have a nice chunk of cash somewhere. The postal service will operate indefinitely because they earn their own money. For everybody else, a shutd…

Thank god for usps.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#157

Post by kharms » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

Clanan wrote: post #150

lambda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

FYI this is a great neutral explanation up until the last paragraph, which is politically charged. This attempts to imply the Republican party sought the shutdown. In fact, the shutdown was caused by the Democratic party not voting for the Continuing Resolution (pseudo-budget). 60 Senate votes are required, but the majority party (Republicans) only has 51. It's a big slimy ball of politics all-around. Also, more on p…

*The majority party has 51 Senators but only mustered 47 votes from their own party, with another 5 coming from the minority.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#158

Post by jernfrost » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

Clanan wrote: post #150

lambda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

FYI this is a great neutral explanation up until the last paragraph, which is politically charged. This attempts to imply the Republican party sought the shutdown. In fact, the shutdown was caused by the Democratic party not voting for the Continuing Resolution (pseudo-budget). 60 Senate votes are required, but the majority party (Republicans) only has 51. It's a big slimy ball of politics all-around. Also, more on p…

Clanan, to my knowledge this is ALL Trump and the republican's fault. Until 3 weeks ago they could have passed anything they wanted. It is just because they wasted time and Trump sabotaged everything the republicans came up with that so much time passed that they reached a stage where a 60 senate vote was needed.

You can't blame this on democrats when republicans could have handled this exclusively themselves and had ample time to do so.

This is simply a reflection of the chaos that is the Trump administration.

It is ironic to think of how I told Trump voters before the election, that if you vote on that man you will get noting but grid lock politics, because he is not a uniter. He is not a man who seeks cooperation and common ground.

I got laughed at for this, with Trump supporters telling me they didn't need democrats for anything because they controlled both houses.

I guess it is my turn to laugh then. I great irony that they manage to get themselves into this mess. The democrats didn't even have to lift a finger.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#159

Post by zeveb » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

lambda wrote: post #41

bambax wrote: post #28

As a foreigner the whole government shutdown is a thing of wonder: how does it work exactly? For instance, is there no police anymore? How does Congress stay in session during a shutdown? Where does electricity in federal buildings come from if the Federal govt can't pay for it?

One thing to understand about the US is that it is actually a federation of states. Much of the day-to-day work happens at the state or local level, not at the federal level. Police, fire departments, emergency first responders mostly employed at that level, and when the federal government is involved, a lot of it is in doing some coordination between states, setting standards, funding for various programs, and so on…

A great explanation, except for the last paragraph. I'd have upvoted it otherwise.

Right now, it's the other party which has shut down government, because it does not want to pass a funding bill without addressing illegal aliens first.

Re: SpaceX can't test fire its Falcon Heavy rocket due to the government shutdown

#160

Post by zeveb » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

bsimpson wrote: post #60

bambax wrote: post #28

As a foreigner the whole government shutdown is a thing of wonder: how does it work exactly? For instance, is there no police anymore? How does Congress stay in session during a shutdown? Where does electricity in federal buildings come from if the Federal govt can't pay for it?

This is the thing that blew my mind last time: The shoreline of San Francisco is a national park (donated when the military base here closed). There's a restaurant on the shore called Cliff House, whose landlord is the US government. During the shutdown, the government forced the restaurant, a private establishment, to close. The owners and the kitchen staff were not allowed to make a living. And because they aren't…

During the last shutdown, the executive branch deliberately tried to make it as painful as possible, whether or not it actually needed to be, as a political ploy. I recall in another instance it spent resources to block access to something which people could have just walked across.

I'm sincerely curious if the executive branch this time is pulling the same sort of shenanigans.