Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#151

Post by jayd16 » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #36

I find it fascinating that a tax plan proposed by a President reviled throughout the Valley is the one thing that finally convinced Apple to repatriate much of its overseas cash and invest it here in the US. They of course give no credit to him in this press release, but the proof is in the pudding. Of the many heavy handed ideas and efforts made by the previous administration to convince Apple to do this, exactly 0…

And all it took was another $1 trillion in deficit spending. Color me unimpressed.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#152

Post by geofft » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #58

southphillyman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair the bonuses I've heard about have been laughable so far and accompanied by large lay offs in two cases (Walmart and Comcast).

Bank of America, AT&T, Comcast, Walmart, Jetblue, Southwest are just a few who announced $1,000 bonuses. Not laughable to middle class Americans. Aren't middle class who liberals fight for? Source: http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/11/news/economy/tax-law-raises-...

If we are defending $1,000 one-time bonuses, why not just pass a law requiring these companies to pay $1,000 to their workers?

This is a bit of a reductio ad absurdum, but the point here is, what cost are we willing to pay as a society in exchange for the $1,000 one-time bonuses? This hypothetical law would be a terrible precedent for businesses, but would it be worse for the people receiving these bonuses than the actual tax plan?

And in order to answer whether it would or wouldn't, we need to look at the merits of the actual tax plan's substance, not the fact that it has (supposedly) caused people to get $1,000 bonuses.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#153

Post by threeseed » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

zghst wrote: post #112

eqmvii wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a tax plan proposed by a President The corporate tax changes weren't his idea - they have been kicking around Capitol Hill with more or less bipartisan support for years, and it almost happened while Obama was president. The full package of changes wound up being highly politicized and controversial, but the corporate changes were always seen as very likely to pass sooner or later.

He was pretty much the only finalist candidate that proposed cutting taxes, and not just by a bit, Trump by his nature wanted the greatest change

This is factually baseless nonsense.

Jeb Bush: https://taxfoundation.org/details-and-analysis-governor-jeb-...

Marco Rubio: https://taxfoundation.org/presidential-hopeful-marco-rubio-a...

You can compare all candidate plans here: https://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-re...

In fact it was Ben Carson who proposed cutting the tax rates the most (corporate tax rate -> 14.9%).

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#154

Post by makomk » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

lbrdn wrote: post #126

Of course lowering taxes would encourage companies to repatriate large overseas cash hoards, but if that's the only goal, why have a tax at all? As a country the US has obligations to its current citizens and its future citizens and those obligations cost money. If we overly celebrate these windfalls every time the tax rate is lowered, we might not realize that what we owe the citizen is being forgot and allowed to e…

You yourself point out the reason to have a tax at all: because someone has to pay for the cost of the US government. Also, at least in the versions I heard about this was a very carrot-and-stick tax bill. It didn't just allow companies like Apple to repatriate their foreign cash hoards at a lower tax rate, it taxed that foreign cash at the same one-off rate whether they repatriated it or not. The whole point was to remove all incentives to not repatriate money, to make it futile to try and wait for some hypothetical opportunity to do so at an even more reduced tax rate.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#155

Post by prklmn » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

IBM wrote: post #90

downandout wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The repatriation is deemed, i.e no company has a choice in it. Incorrect. There is a repatriation tax holiday that enables them to pay lower rates than normal on repatriated cash. It is designed to encourage repatriation. They are not required to do so.

>Incorrect. There is a repatriation tax holiday designed to encourage repatriation. They are not required to do so. Unfortunately, you're incorrect. https://www.pwc.com/us/en/tax-services/publications/insights...

Disregard the link with the confusing title and think critically for a moment. Do you really think the US government is forcing all companies to bring any and all profits earned and stored overseas back to the United States? That’s what you’re implying.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#156

Post by downandout » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

lbrdn wrote: post #126

Of course lowering taxes would encourage companies to repatriate large overseas cash hoards, but if that's the only goal, why have a tax at all? As a country the US has obligations to its current citizens and its future citizens and those obligations cost money. If we overly celebrate these windfalls every time the tax rate is lowered, we might not realize that what we owe the citizen is being forgot and allowed to e…

We currently get $0 in tax revenue from the cash Apple is hoarding overseas. This tax “holiday” (a term I dislike because it incorrectly implies that no tax is being paid on the repatriation, when it is simply a reduced rate) is resulting in $38 billion that we would not have otherwise received.

$38,000,000,000 > $0

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#157

Post by axau » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

lbrdn wrote: post #126

Of course lowering taxes would encourage companies to repatriate large overseas cash hoards, but if that's the only goal, why have a tax at all? As a country the US has obligations to its current citizens and its future citizens and those obligations cost money. If we overly celebrate these windfalls every time the tax rate is lowered, we might not realize that what we owe the citizen is being forgot and allowed to e…

That makes no sense. Then the government would get nothing, plus give up future leverage, so obviously it will not do that. Comparing what happened to having no tax is a straw man.

What happened here is that the government finally set a rate that is agreeable to both parties, which is of course in its interest and long overdue.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#158

Post by briffle » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

acali wrote: post #70

southphillyman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair the bonuses I've heard about have been laughable so far and accompanied by large lay offs in two cases (Walmart and Comcast).

What about Walmart also increasing their hourly pay? [0] [0] - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/walmart-to-boost-starting-wa...

Imagine if personal income taxes were drastically lowered instead? then, walmart could keep the same pay, but ALL its customers (not just its employees) now have more take home pay to spend at walmart.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#159

Post by dmode » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

mudil wrote: post #4

"Apple Plans to Pay $38 Billion in Repatriation Taxes. " Imagine headline like this under Obama, how much praise he would get.

During the Obama years, economy went from 10% unemployment to 4%, yet all I heard from the conservative press on how bad things are.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#160

Post by rdtsc » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

pktgen wrote: post #85

nodesocket wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bank of America, AT&T, Comcast, Walmart, Jetblue, Southwest are just a few who announced $1,000 bonuses. Not laughable to middle class Americans. Aren't middle class who liberals fight for? Source: http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/11/news/economy/tax-law-raises-...

It's very telling that most of the announcements of benefits to workers purportedly attributable to the tax cuts are in the form of one-time bonuses. The corporate tax cuts are ongoing; the bonuses to workers are one-time. These are nothing more than PR moves. Moreover, the headlines are misleading in some cases; for example, Walmart's touted "$1,000 bonus" was actually $200-$1,000 depending on years of service. Only…

> It's very telling that most of the announcements of benefits to workers purportedly attributable to the tax cuts are in the form of one-time bonuses.

It's sad that it's one time. It was probably the quickest way to reward people around the holidays. For many it's a few car payments and maybe a month worth of rent. Yeah it is peanuts for anyone living in on the coasts or writing software or both.

> Only workers with 20+ years of service are getting $1,000.

Walmart wasn't the only company which did it. Sure it was a PR stunt just as much, and it would be nicer to have other things like universal healthcare, but at this point that's a nice fantasy and this is something that made people's live better.