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Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

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Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#151

Post by [deleted] »

whack wrote: post #106
remir wrote: post #21

I'm I the only one who thinks that Japan kinda looks bad here? I mean, Bill's foundation is already dedicating $3B a year on development assistance, couldn't Japan just say to Nigeria: "You don't have to pay us back. Consider it a donation". How could they reasonably expect Nigeria to pay them back $76M?

The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics strikes again. "when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular, if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you ar…

[deleted]

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#152

Post by SolarNet »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #135
whack wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics strikes again. "when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular, if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you ar…

I think I am missing the relevance here, or not getting your point, could you clarify please? Possible I'm missing the obvious reference. As a side note, I find that articles arguments troubling for several reasons that appear to be glossed over, but in interest of not derailing onto a different comment, I'll wait for what aspect you are specifically referring to in this case.

Japan did something to stop polio when no one else would. And now because a billionaire did more as charity Japan looks like a monster for doing what no one else would at the time.

Would it have been better if Japan had done nothing and Bill gates committed the charity now? No, people would have died. So unless you are japanese my question to you would be what has your government done for polio irradication in Nigeria? Because I bet it's less than the Japanese government.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#153

Post by nikanj »

ramblerman wrote: post #146
somberi wrote: post #114

A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries. The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful uplifit is possible from their current poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty

Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#155

Post by skc »

blocked_again wrote: post #154
skc wrote: post #145

The current richest person in Africa (with a net worth of just under 13 billion US dollars) comes from Nigeria. I hope he's taking notes.

I bet he is making more than notes when he is paying his taxes.

Dangote has been in business long enough to know exactly where his taxes go.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#156

Post by TeMPOraL »

nikanj wrote: post #153
ramblerman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

Reminds me of the thing my mother sometimes said, when complaining that terms in democracies are too short, leading to each government not being able to finish anything before having it undone by the next one. She quoted some historical figure from old times (Ancient Rome, I think?) - that a politician will always want to line the pockets of his and his friends (in the past it involved oppressing local population with taxes), but the amount of wealth lost to it is limited, and after that the politician will not care for money that much - so it's better to keep the politician for longer than to replace him, because the new one will start the pocket-lining process anew.

I can't find the exact quote now, unfortunately.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#157

Post by RobertRoberts »

roadbeats wrote: post #111

In return to handing Nigeria's agriculture industry to Monsanto; [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matte... [2] https://www.ecowatch.com/5-million-nigerians-oppose-monsanto...

Does anyone really think Bill Gates is a superior moral person with no ulterior motive at all? And if you think so, can you provide proof, or just assumption?

History almost universally shows that the rich and powerful manipulate both the people and their image for their own good, not for the well being of the peasants.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#158

Post by throwwwwaway9 »

somberi wrote: post #114

A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries. The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful uplifit is possible from their current poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty

A more correct title would be "Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's Polio Related $76M Debt to Japan." So Bill Gates wants to eradicate polio and has been funding countries. In this Japan loaned it to Nigeria and Bill Gates paid it off.

Paying debts for third world countries (is this still politically correct?) is not efficient, might as well give it directly to their leaders--you save on fees. A corrupt to the core, third world country would issue even more debt to buy votes with projects (after taking a 20% "fee" for the leaders,) hire more of their supporters in state jobs etc etc.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#159

Post by throwwwwaway9 »

skc wrote: post #155
blocked_again wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet he is making more than notes when he is paying his taxes.

Dangote has been in business long enough to know exactly where his taxes go.

...has interests in commodities in Nigeria and other African countries, including Benin, Ethiopia, Senegal, Cameroon, Ghana, South Africa, Togo, Tanzania, and Zambia.

In some countries, suitcases or wire transfers to secret accounts beat lawyers when it comes to saving in taxes. But then, now you have your fortune, now you don't.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#160

Post by pizza234 »

nikanj wrote: post #153
ramblerman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

> it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

This type of statement is a logical fallacy (I'd like to know if it's formalized, and if so, what's the name), and I think it's one of the most common: "There is X in any country".

Of course there is X in any country, but can be a radically different quantity and quality of X between two countries.

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