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More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

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Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#151

Post by adwn »

adamlett wrote: post #146
rorykoehler wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these proposals about taxing more make me feel uneasy. The real issue i have with tax isn't how much i pay but how it is used. Before i need to pay even more tax i would like to see a concerted effort to automate civil service jobs out of existence (needing to queue at 5am in the morning to get anything done in Berlin is an inexcusable joke in 21st century) and two we need to destroy the unemployment welfare syst…

The real issue i have with tax isn't how much i pay but how it is used. Pardon my french, but that's such bullshit. Everyone who doesn't like to pay taxes has a noble excuse like yours. Sometimes they oppose to taxes being used to fund the arts, even though it's such a minuscule slice of the total pie as to be barely visible. Other times it's something else that they feel is frivolous or opposed to by some principle…

> But money spent by the government doesn't just disappear after it has been spent. It ends back in the pockets of the citizens!

Money doesn't disappear, but resources (labor, natural resources) do. Money is just a proxy for resources, so it is valid to say that money can be "wasted", even if it flows into the pockets of workers – for every unit of money spent, there is an opportunity cost.

> In the worst case scenario, it is thus simply being redistributed.

That is not the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is that resources are used up with little or nothing constructive to show for it. I disagree with many libertarian opinions, but it is not unreasonable to worry about wasteful government spending.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#152

Post by adwn »

rorykoehler wrote: post #148
adamlett wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue i have with tax isn't how much i pay but how it is used. Pardon my french, but that's such bullshit. Everyone who doesn't like to pay taxes has a noble excuse like yours. Sometimes they oppose to taxes being used to fund the arts, even though it's such a minuscule slice of the total pie as to be barely visible. Other times it's something else that they feel is frivolous or opposed to by some principle…

Sorry it's not bullshit. Governments in Europe are especially renowned for the any work is better than none approach and therefore even make up fake jobs to keep their unemployed subjects busy. Protestant work ethic withdrawal is evident and drawn out. Having experienced living in numerous countries i can safely say that taxes are often (not always) poorly spent in Europe. The bureaucracy is over bearing and many job…

Not that I necessarily disagree, but what countries outside of Europe are doing a better job with regards to spending money?

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#153

Post by Broken_Hippo »

smsm42 wrote: post #136
closeparen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the value contributing to millionaire net worth is going to be in 401ks and home equity, neither of which you could reasonably access to pay a $500 expense. It would be pretty weird to have <$500 in checking at the same time as 5-6 figures in retirement + home equity, but possible. It helps that 401k is a payroll deduction and there's really no bargaining with yourself on whether to pay the mortgage this mont…

You can access 401k under "financial hardship", after paying taxes and 10% penalty. Of course, it's rarely worth it for $500 - it'd be better to find a credit card with 0% APR or other credit option, if you have access to those. I imagine most people with 401k's do have access to credit. Am I wrong? You can also loan against 401k (though there are limits, but if you have it for a while loaning $500 would not be a pro…

"I imagine most people with 401k's do have access to credit. Am I wrong?"

Yes. Low-paying jobs at Wal-mart and Lowes and some gas stations offer a 401k. The contributions are tiny because the checks are tiny but the company usually contributes as well. These folks aren't as likely to have access to credit.

I'll put this as well: If you are looking to take $500 from your 401k outside of those groups, I'm gonna guess things have gone horribly wrong. Getting a new credit card might be a bit tough because your credit is probably already showing the hurt.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#154

Post by dd36 »

stale2002 wrote: post #98
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The income by the inheritor was never earned. Hence it's perfectly logical to tax it.

Yes it was. It was earned by the person who made the money. Would you rather all the wealthy people in the world just blow all their money on yachts or something? Because that is the alternative. Why bother saving money if it is all just going to be confiscated when you die. Instead you should just blow it all on ridiculous things that help nobody but yourself in the immediate time frame.

Or they spend it on politicians.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#155

Post by Broken_Hippo »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #114
closeparen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A median-income household owning a median-priced house and making the standard 15% 401k contribution will clear "millionaire" by retirement age, easily.

And yet “Fifty-seven percent of Americans don't have enough cash to cover a $500 unexpected expense”. We suck at saving as a country.

15% of those are in poverty. This doesn't let you save up money. One in two americans are low income. [1]. I'd not call these number exact, but close enough. Much of the group you describe only suck at saving because their income sucks. $50-$100 extra a month doesn't make it easy to save up $500 for an emergency. Literally months. Months with nothing happening. Not a flat tire, not a doctor's appointment. Nothing breaking.

This doesn't explain everyone in your category, though, so a portion suck at saving.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/16/well-of-...

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#156

Post by empthought »

personjerry wrote: post #81
gbacon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How then is it possible that some four in five American millionaires inherited no more than ten thousand dollars, according to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley?

Isn’t this article about Europe though?

It's called "Thatcherism" for a reason.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#157

Post by xorfish »

tomlock wrote: post #105
gbacon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How then is it possible that some four in five American millionaires inherited no more than ten thousand dollars, according to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley?

This sounds like a big number, but consider this - if less than 10% of Americans are millionaires then this means that millionaire parents are more than twice as likely to have millionaire children as non-millionaires. This shouldn't gel well with someone who values meritocracy/social mobility.

Handling money responsibly is the easiest way to become a millionaire, not inheritance.

Upbringing is important and I think children of millionaires are more likely to develop healthy spending habits.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#158

Post by celdon25 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #133
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet “Fifty-seven percent of Americans don't have enough cash to cover a $500 unexpected expense”. We suck at saving as a country.

Cash and net worth are not the same thing.

I like to remind myself that being poor and being broke are not the same thing.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#159

Post by rospaya »

adamlett wrote: post #146
rorykoehler wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these proposals about taxing more make me feel uneasy. The real issue i have with tax isn't how much i pay but how it is used. Before i need to pay even more tax i would like to see a concerted effort to automate civil service jobs out of existence (needing to queue at 5am in the morning to get anything done in Berlin is an inexcusable joke in 21st century) and two we need to destroy the unemployment welfare syst…

The real issue i have with tax isn't how much i pay but how it is used. Pardon my french, but that's such bullshit. Everyone who doesn't like to pay taxes has a noble excuse like yours. Sometimes they oppose to taxes being used to fund the arts, even though it's such a minuscule slice of the total pie as to be barely visible. Other times it's something else that they feel is frivolous or opposed to by some principle…

I would usually agree with you but I live in one of the most corrupted countries in Europe where public money is spent with complete disregard and some public services are crumbling as a result.

Over here we pay a lot and don't get nearly enough in return. The effect of this is a growing libertarian political scene.

Re: More than half of all private wealth has been inherited in most of Europe

#160

Post by walshemj »

marxwasright wrote: post #41
walshemj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they where talking not about tbills, guilts or consols but riskier shares

The rise of passive investment strategies has neatly proved that no skill and little luck is required to grow existing capital in the modern society.

When everyone is jumping on the band wagon its probably time to run away and passively investing in guilts is dangerous when bank rates return to normal - there will be a massive loss of capital.
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