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Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

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Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#151
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Title II was only introduced as a result of the Open Internet Order (from 2010) being overturned. Net neutrality principles have been sanctioned by the FCC since 2005; removing title II designation and moving away from these principles is a shift that should not be understated.

Actually Title II dates back to 1934.

Not sure why people are downvoting this but Title II goes back to the Communications Act of 1934 [1] [2] [3].

This may have been revised extensively in the Telecommunications Act of 1996 [4] and with subsequent policy changes around treatment of "telecommunications services", "information services" and "common carriers" but the point remains: Title II has a long history.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_the_United_S...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Act_of_1934#Str...

[3] https://transition.fcc.gov/Reports/1934new.pdf, pp35-136

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996...

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#152
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way did Net Neutrality prevent people from starting an ISP? Please be specific.

I would suggest you read what Mr Pai said. He went into this subject. https://www.recode.net/2017/12/14/16777356/full-transcript-a... Small internet services were being shut out due to the Title II regulations.

> Small internet services were being shut out due to the Title II regulations.

no, they weren't:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/ajit-pai-claims-...

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#153
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither one of those is a true solution. For one, we currently do not live in a climate where competition is happening. Every NN supporter would love for that to happen, but for now it's not. Second, not every place can support competing ISPs. Do the people who live in the inner city or out in rural areas not deserve a neutral net?

Local loop unbundling as in the UK does.

LLU is essentially irrelevant today, it's fascinating that people keep bringing this up.

LLU happens at the exchange where the local loop edge is. But today's users want speeds which aren't practical over the long local loop. So the fibre was pushed out to street cabinets, FTTC, which are much closer to the end user and too small and numerous for LLU to work.

This makes good technical/engineering sense but it means there is no real competition. What the UK did about that is heavy regulation. The regulator decides how much can be charged to deliver the FTTC service from a consumer to a POP owned by an ISP as a wholesale price.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#154
post #141

This is the way to do it. Let the individual states experiment and decide. If net neutrality really IS good/bad, you'll notice it when you cross state borders and go online.

Not if you view NN as a human rights / free speech issue in addition to an economic one.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#156
post #57

The real solution to the problem, as I see it, is not even Net Neutrality (though I strongly support Net Neutrality). The solution is to break the monopolistic stranglehold on last-mile internet service. If it were possible to have competition in the last-mile ISP space, then consumers could vote with their wallets and choose those ISPs who supported Net Neutrality. An alternate partial solution would be to force com…

Municipal broadband.

Amen -- treat it as a utility and just focus on maintaining dumb pipes.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#157
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Title II was only introduced as a result of the Open Internet Order (from 2010) being overturned. Net neutrality principles have been sanctioned by the FCC since 2005; removing title II designation and moving away from these principles is a shift that should not be understated.

> Net neutrality principles have been sanctioned by the FCC since 2005 And before that no ISP would even consider tiered pricing because there were no services worth tiering. Alexadra Petri has a really good analogy over at the WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/12/14/n...

You're referring to this part?

>>It may not be technically illegal to bring a bear into a maternity ward, but we have, I think, started to live our lives with the expectation that nobody will do this. So if we put forth a rule saying, just so we’re clear, No Bears in the Maternity Ward, I would not expect anyone to complain that this was stifling innovation. In fact, if someone said “Hey, let’s get rid of that rule about not bringing bears into hospitals so we can restore the wonderful, competitive environment we had before,” I would wonder, “What exactly are you PLANNING that you need us to get rid of this relatively basic protection?”

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#158
post #85
post #82

Forget about Net-Neutrality, it's gone, it's a dead horse. Let's see some competition. I cannot believe that I live in the middle of the infamous Silicon Valley and only have a single choice when it comes to fast broadband, and that one goes down every other month for 3-8 hours.

I've got Comcast gigabit, in San Mateo county. I took the time today to inquire (again) with Wave/Astound, Sonic, AT&T about FTTH. AT&T gave me the worst rep humanly possible. I spent 20mins on the phone with her for her to still utterly misunderstand my question, as she was apparently unable to understand or speak english. I already knew Gigapower was not available, I just want SOMEONE to tell me when they plan to o…

I used to defend Sonic as a scrappy startup fighting the good fight for good people. But seriously, it's tiring and old. They needed to raise money to roll out fiber to more than 25 people in the sticks. They didn't and I think a large part of it I was Dane didn't want to give up control in return for capital. OK, that's his choice, but I'm no longer going to laud Sonic. It's basically a cute toy if you're lucky, not a real company.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#159

Haven't read TFA but I'm going to say the internet most definitely falls under 'interstate commerce' so California isn't able to regulate it.

You're exactly right and I have no idea why you've been downvoted.

Saying it's one thing, doesn't make it so, which is why fiat statements of fact that arent fact, get downvoted. Sales tax on ecommerce has demonstrated that there are decisions that are both yet-to-be-determined and will resolve in fantastically complicated idiotic ways.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#160
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, I count five posts from your account just within this sub thread. Not one has any citations for claims that you make. This undermines the credibility of your arguments. Please back up your statements by pointing to sources that support your interpretation of laws and events so that others can verify them.

If you're hearing this for the first time then you aren't getting your news from someone who is aware of the US Telecom Association v FCC case in which the court of appeals made it clear that because of first amendment problems, the FCC can't prohibit censorship by ISPs. https://techliberation.com/2017/07/12/heres-why-the-obama-fc... https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/06F8BFD0... ...and this: https:/…

The court of appeals did no such thing. In your second link, the most recent decision, it wrote:

> Does the rule lie within the agency’s statutory authority? And is it consistent with the First Amendment? The answer to both questions, in our view, is yes.

This was the majority opinion, although one judge dissented and said it did violate the First Amendment.

The court did mention a clause in the FCC order then under consideration about ‘edited’ services, which is what your first link takes out of context. The order itself explicitly allowed for such services, so as far as I can tell, the court did not opine one way or the other on whether ISPs separately have a First Amendment right to provide them. This isn’t as big a loophole as it sounds, though. Describing the order’s requirements, the court wrote:

> That would be true of an ISP that offers subscribers a curated experience by blocking websites lying beyond a specified field of content (e.g., family friendly websites). It would also be true of an ISP that engages in other forms of editorial intervention, such as throttling of certain applications chosen by the ISP, or filtering of content into fast (and slow) lanes based on the ISP’s commercial interests. An ISP would need to make adequately clear its intention to provide “edited services” of that kind, id. ¶ 556, so as to avoid giving consumers a mistaken impression that they would enjoy indiscriminate “access to all content available on the Internet, without the editorial intervention of their broadband provider,” id. ¶ 549. It would not be enough under the Order, for instance, for “consumer permission” to be “buried in a service plan—the threats of consumer deception and confusion are simply too great.” Id. ¶ 19; see id. ¶ 129.

> There is no need in this case to scrutinize the exact manner in which a broadband provider could render the FCC’s Order inapplicable by advertising to consumers that it offers an edited service rather than an unfiltered pathway. No party disputes that an ISP could do so if it wished, and no ISP has suggested an interest in doing so in this court. That may be for an understandable reason: a broadband provider representing that it will filter its customers’ access to web content based on its own priorities might have serious concerns about its ability to attract subscribers.

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