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Telegram Isn't for Sale

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Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#151
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you check the full cycle ? Ie. if your employer gives you $1, and you use that to give it to Apple (for an app, whatever), how much actually ends up with Apple ? Let me do the calculation for Belgium for you: $1 -> First, because yearly the employer has to pay you for 13.92 months, not 12 (end of year bonus thing), we take that out. That's 14% (but you get 20 days 1.5 times paid holidays, and an end of year bonus,…

I won't pretend to know anything about the Belgian tax code or labor laws. But this strikes me as odd way to do the math: > $1 -> First, because yearly the employer has to pay you for 13.92 months, not 12 (end of year bonus thing), we take that out. That's 14% (but you get 20 days 1.5 times paid holidays, and an end of year bonus, which is taxed at a higher rate, but you do get that) Why are you subtracting 14% from…

Because I'm making a specific calculation, from a specific viewpoint. What I'm telling you is what happens when an employer decides to give you 1 euro of their money, how much you get out of that, in terms of what you can give someone else for a good or service, in the (oversimplified) common case. Given that perspective, I feel my calculation is, barring some oversimplifications, correct.

To be exact at the beginning of the calculation I'm calculating euros that your employer spends on you. At the end of the calculation is money you have given to someone else for a good or service that they can actually use for something.

If you want to look at it from an employee's perspective, you're right taxes would look different. In fact, on your "bruto" pay you'll pay income tax, which will come out at around 45%-50% if you're on something around 50k euros/year bruto. And yes, add 14% because of the 13.92 (well, keep in mind that it'll be taxed at the 50% tax rate, and there are additional taxes levied on top of that 50% on that amount, so frankly it'd be safer to assume you get 5-6% on top of your bruto pay actually deposited in your bank account).

I feel like this is a way the government masks how high taxes are, but of course you can look at it however you want. I guarantee, however, that employers budget for your pay in terms of euros they need to pay to anyone to have you on the payroll, and I guarantee that when someone decides on the price to sell you something, they'll consider VAT to not be part of the money they get.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#152
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have opted for user convinience on this matter. Fully searchable history of all communication synced on all your devices. A nightmare for a dissident attacked by state, but convinience 90% of the population should not be stripped of.

Is it technically impossible to have end to end encryption with full history, even synced? As long as you have the decryption key, you could have synced encrypted history, the best of both worlds, right?

A good encryption doesn't let you decode old messages even if you know the key. That's to prevent "the enemy" from recording everything in the hope of getting the key someday.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#153
post #9

FIY: While they claim being hounded back in Russia, and that they will be instantaneously jumped upon by 3 letter services if they were to run there, they were proven to have a huge office there as well as their main server infrastructure. Another red flag, is that they were never blocked in Russia. They look suspicious.

Yeah, I agree. Other red flags: he's leaving Russia with 2,000 bitcoins; Julian Assange endorsing Telegram; Telegram popular in Iran (close Russian ally); end of article says that Putin's Kremlin staff uses it. (edit: formatting)

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they do, charities are just businesses that don’t distribute profits to share holders. Making money or not has nothing to do with charity status - it’s about what you do with the profits.

This is a very recent interpretation. It is legally true, but it goes against the true meaning of the word. When you work for a charity, do you ask for a raise? Do you get a bonus if you collect more money? How much to you get to keep? Not even mentioning that sometimes the money goes through a chain of charities, all making a living out of it, but leaving almost nothing for the final beneficiary.

Salaries are an operating cost and have nothing to do with the disbursement of profits. Some people at charities are very well paid but that has nothing to do with the charitable status.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#155
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does that mean that services are getting better? One part of it is that there's more of it: more elderly people that require and receive care.

Being 32, I fail to understand how it benefits my bottom line.

The theory is that you both a) have relatives/other people that you care about that benefit from this, and b) that you will benefit from it when it's your turn to live even longer.

Of course, it's yet to be seen how well b) will play out in practice.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#156
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being 32, I fail to understand how it benefits my bottom line.

The theory is that you both a) have relatives/other people that you care about that benefit from this, and b) that you will benefit from it when it's your turn to live even longer. Of course, it's yet to be seen how well b) will play out in practice.

Maybe they do benefit from this. I fail to see how it converts into an obligation for me.

I care about X. X would like to recieve money backed by my payments. Does that mean I owe them those payments?

How well do Ponzi schemes play out in practice?

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#157

I'm still not sure which one is better: Signal or Telegram.

Signal. Telegram is a business run by a millionare who is having fun. Signal is run by well known security expert / activist and his very transparent company Open Whisper systems. The way Signal tackles the problems is smart gradual development and they are the closest to making the holy grail - e2e encryption without users even noticing it. There are no "secure" and "not secure" messages in signal - it is all encryp…

You're making the mistake of assuming "better" is a single vector.

Signal is more secure, yes. However its UI, UX, accessibility, feature sets and performance are absolutely in baby shoes.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you didn't get healthcare, free education for 20+ years, subsidised student loans, retirement money, police, fire department etc. from the state? You really should stop and think what you get from the state before you criticise what the state takes from you.

Healthcare isn’t free in Germany. It’s extortionately expensive.

It costs about half what the US pays per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#159

I'm still not sure which one is better: Signal or Telegram.

Neither. Both require tying your identity to a phone number.

You're better off with Matrix/Riot or XMPP. Neither requires a phone number, both offer the ability to communicate securely, even with a compromised server. Both also support multiple devices, group chats and federation.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#160

I'm still not sure which one is better: Signal or Telegram.

If you want to use one on your Android phone without Google apps, then only Telegram will work.

I use Tox with my geek friends and Telegram with my less geek friends. I also plan to give a try to ring.cx

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