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The Big Vitamin D Mistake

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

151–160 of 459 posts

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#151
post #139

Is this specific to North America? As someone who lives along the equator, I think it's impossible to get too little sun exposure in these parts.

The study was about Finland. Scandinavia and northern countries broadly often have a variety of bad health effects from very low VitD levels (including eg very high rates of multiple sclerosis). Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Canada, UK, Germany are among the nations with the highest rates of multiple sclerosis, heavily due to their low VitD.

If you don't get enough sun (a minority of people anywhere on the planet do or can), Vitamin D can be an important supplement no matter where you live. It's well worth it to have a simple blood test done to get your levels checked, if you can at some point, just to know where you stand.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#152
Living in scandinavia I've taken vitamin D every winter. But lately started taking it all year.

I've been sloppy and it seems to coincide with periods of poor energy and a bad mood.

I'm not sure if the energy and mood precede the drop in vitamin use or vice versa. But either way I think it's good to supplement if you live up north.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting to hear of a connection between this, type 1 diabetes and autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's?). I have celiac, also an autoimmune disease, and one of the symptoms is tingly and numb extremities, peripheral neuropathy. I think that's related to the ataxia side of celiac and nerve degeneration from nerves losing their sheathing. Prior to diagnosis, I learned that the numbness is also a symptom of Vitam…

Have you ever taken a fluoroquinolone antibiotic at any point in your life? Look into r-lipoic acid, low dose 100mg (take one per day, with food), from the Doctor's Best brand (available on Amazon). You might consider that for the peripheral neuropathy, it does wonders for some people.

Well, shoot. I just took ciprofloxacin for a week following a minor surgery, and noticed that I've lost some of the sensation in my upper right leg. I assumed it was caused by the surgery, but in six weeks, it hasn't improved. Not exactly life-altering, but it does feel pretty weird when scratching an itch and I'll get odd tingling there sometimes while trying to sleep that feels more warm than painful.

> Nearly all quinolone antibiotics in modern use are fluoroquinolones ... One example is ciprofloxacin (Cipro), one of the most widely used antibiotics worldwide.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#154
post #97

I have been taking 5000IU Vitamin D for the past 7 years, with a little more over the winter months. It's stupidly cheap, I get 360 5000IU capsules for $13, so it has cost me less than $100 over that period. Anecdotally, it was a game changer for me personally. I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. A word of advice, increase Vitamin K intake aswell. Vitamin D helps calcium abso…

I haven't heard this about vitamin K before - please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we know how the mechanism through which vitamin K reduces skeletal fractures.

Here you can find all info you want: https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-k/

Search on that page for: "Skeleton and Bone Metabolism". K1 and K2 work differently. We know a lot but there is still a lot more we don't know. Hell, looks like even different versions of K2 (from MK-4 to MK-13) works for different stuff in body. Only because MK-7 stays in blood for longer than MK-4 doesn't mean that it better. It could also mean that body is better in utilizing MK-4, or even that it's using it for different stuff.

More here: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vit...

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#155

Anecdotal I know, but I've heard of a couple of different areas where a a medical professional recommends Vitamin D supplements to their patient. Someone I know has been told to take vitamin D to help manage relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis[1] Another person has been recommended vitamin D to help with conception. Seems to pop up all over the place. [1] https://www.mssociety.org.uk/ms-research/emerging-areas/vit…

Henry Osieki in the 9th edition of his book The Nutrient Bible factors increasing demand for Vitamin D include:

alcohol, autoimmune reactive arthritis, bile problems, cancer (breast, prostate, colon, and skin). Crohn's disease, cystic fibrosis, elderly individuals, hypoparathyroidism, intestinal disorders, insulin dependent diabetes, kidney disorders, lack of exposure to sun, mineral oil intake multiple sclerosis, obesity pancreatic disease, pregnancy, rickets, schizophrenia, smog exposure, ulcerative colitis, use of anti convulsants e.g. phenytoin and phenobarbital, steroid medication, vegetarianism.

Functions facilitated: anti-proliferative effect - osteosarcoma, melanoma, colon and breast cancer, apoptosis, anti-inflammatory action, blood clotting, calcium and phosphate absorption and regulation, cofactor in synthesis of heat shock proteins, differentiates leukaemia cells and induces apoptosis, heart and muscle action, helps induce monocyte conversion to macrophages, increases bone strength, induces apoptosis in breast and prostate cancer, increases neurotrophic factor synthesis (NGF, GDNF, NF-3), increases the activity of tyrosine hydroxylase and choline acetyltransferase, increases neural glutathione levels, inhibits iNOS and TFN - alpha activity, immune-regulating properties, mineralisation of bone and teeth potent anti-proliferative agent in the colon, protects against neurotoxicity associated with ischaemia, reduces the risk of colorectal and prostate cancer, regulates cellular differentiation in intestinal cells, regulates or inhibits T-cell mediated immune response, regulation of calcium and phosphorous metabolism, selectively reduces interleukin 2 levels and proliferation of T cells, stimulates polyamine, stimulator of ornithine decarboxylase and spermidine acetyl transferase.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#156
Related to this topic, if you have IBS/IBD, some interesting research been coming out in the last couple of years indicating that low vitamin D may play a role in this issue as well. This [1] 2015 study found 82% of people with IBS had low vitamin D levels relative to 31% in the control group. This [2] 2016 one proved causation of vitamin D supplementation improving symptoms, by randomly splitting into two groups and treating only one. This [3] speculative writeup by the Vitamin D Council in 2014 discusses some possible mechanisms of action.

This seems like such low-hanging fruit that it was extremely surprising to me that this is at the cutting edge. Causes and cures for IBS are not clear and one third of patients find current treatments unsuccessful [4]. But the above doesn't seem to be well known in online discussion because it's so new, and my gastroenterologist didn't bring it up at all either.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4412886/

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27154424

[3] https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/inflammato...

[4] https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/study-finds-high-dose-vitami...

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#157
post #142
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to refer to it. If you are curious search on google or HN.

It seems dishonest to hide content that may be relevant to the discussion, especially after teasing it that way. Maybe if it warrants mentioning in your original comment it also warrants explaining why you think it's irrelevant?

There's no dishonesty. They are easily found for anyone interested. As I said the horse been has beaten to death so I didn't want to do what I was discouraging others from doing.

They are mostly uneducated, lazy, decade-old, hand-wavy, and baseless personal attacks on him.

The man has been a geek, engineer, programmer and a techie for multiple decades.

He has been on record for the past 12-13 years audio, video and text transcripts, 2-3 hours per week, discussing many topics in detail, explaining his thoughts and ideas and reasoning carefully (on SecurityNow podcast, 600+ episodes!).

Every time he has made a mistake he comes back and carefully corrects himself, and it doesn't happen often either.

He is no Linus Torvalds, and he doesn't claim to be one, most of us aren't either.

And his knowledge goes into all sorts of weird corners from science fiction to medicine like the vitamin D stuff and the "sleep formula".

All of it available for free for anyone who has the patience to sit through it and learn. I have, and he has improved my life in many ways that I owe him for and can never pay back (including starting to take vitamin D many years ago after he talked about as I have referred to).

He has contributed positively to this community and industry for many years. He has done nothing to deserve people bringing up stupid pages that call him a "charlatan" or "snake oil salesman" every time someone calls his name.

There isn't even any substance to those claims. Most of them say "he said XP raw sockets were bad!! GET HIM!!".

Or variations of "Spinrite doesn't fix prostate cancer. It must be snake oil software.".

He has probably explained 10+ hours on SecurityNow the history behind Spinrite, what it does, what it doesn't, why it works, where it works, where it doesn't work and everything in between.

But these bitter 20-something neckbeards are too busy for that. Let's jump the man that has been a programmer for longer than you have existed because he uses assembly or something ... GET HIM!

I have no horse in this race. I'm just angry at the smug reply that inevitably follows every time him or his pages/products/projects are mentioned.

As if everyone needs to be warned about this monster of a man for the unimaginable sins he committed 10+ years ago when he said something about XP raw sockets, or something else.

If these people criticising him had produced a tenth of the content that he has produced they would have made many more mistakes.

What are we to do now? Crucify Gibson because his Spinrite software doesn't perform miracles? Or because he has made a few mistakes here and there? Everyone else is perfect?

Are we going to dig up the past history of everyone else who is mentioned too? And link to a page that enumerates the minor mistakes they have made over their entire career?

Go dig up Github commits to shame people who introduced stupid bugs in open source software? (not that he has, just an example)

Or how about we dig through their medium posts, conference presentations, and list and archive any possible mistakes.

Then every time someone mentions them say "HEY LOOK EVERY BODY THIS PERSON HAS MADE 3 WHOLE MISTAKES SINCE 10 YEARS AGO, THEY ARE CLEARLY A MONSTER! STAY FAR AWAY.".

It is completely uncalled for and has gotten real old.

He doesn't come here to write something like this himself so I had to do it for him.

Steve, if you ever read this, thank you for your work.

Edit: fixed some typos, added some additional sentences

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#158
post #144
post #97

I have been taking 5000IU Vitamin D for the past 7 years, with a little more over the winter months. It's stupidly cheap, I get 360 5000IU capsules for $13, so it has cost me less than $100 over that period. Anecdotally, it was a game changer for me personally. I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. A word of advice, increase Vitamin K intake aswell. Vitamin D helps calcium abso…

> I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. Just out of curiosity, did you work out regularly in a gym before taking those pills?

Not the GP, but: While I discovered in the last years that I absolutely need to work out regularly or risk getting depressed, it is especially hard in the winter months. It seems that my body is preparing for hibernation and all I want to do is sleep and eat (preferably with lots of carbs and fat).

I think I will talk to my doctor about trying some Vitamin D supplementation in the next months. Generally I try to avoid supplements, but in this case I don't know what else to try.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#159
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever taken a fluoroquinolone antibiotic at any point in your life? Look into r-lipoic acid, low dose 100mg (take one per day, with food), from the Doctor's Best brand (available on Amazon). You might consider that for the peripheral neuropathy, it does wonders for some people.

Well, shoot. I just took ciprofloxacin for a week following a minor surgery, and noticed that I've lost some of the sensation in my upper right leg. I assumed it was caused by the surgery, but in six weeks, it hasn't improved. Not exactly life-altering, but it does feel pretty weird when scratching an itch and I'll get odd tingling there sometimes while trying to sleep that feels more warm than painful. > Nearly all…

Cipro and fluoros in general can be extremely dangerous (and Cipro is the light-weight among the class, the others are truly terrifying). It's now carrying two black-box warning labels from the FDA, which they slapped on it after dragging their feet for over a decade about several well-known and horrific side effects, including causing nerve damage.

If you've taken it in the last year or two, I'd suggest taking high absorbtion magnesium (citrate etc). Some of the particularly bad effects from Cipro seem to be caused - if not entirely, at least in part - by low magnesium levels. It strips magnesium out of various tissue and leaves it necrotic, which is how it destroys tendons for example (one of the FDA labels is for spontaneous tendon rupture). If you had low magnesium levels before taking it, the concern is that much greater. The earlier you take the magnesium after completing Cipro, the better.

The other compounding action on fluoros, including Cipro, is NSAIDs and steroids, they dramatically increase the damage from the antibiotic (the instructions you get with Cipro properly warn against taking NSAIDs with it, but how many people don't realize how dangerous taking Advil around the same time might be?).

Cipro is being implicated in all sorts of interesting things:

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotic...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2012/09/30/antibi...

If you spend even a few minutes digging, you'll find a large array of high quality sources now discussing it. 20 years ago it was mostly fringe sources discussing it. The FDA though, was warned as far back as the early 1990s, for example by a paper out of UCLA med circa 1994 that perfectly laid out how dangerous it was. The FDA's behavior was either malicious (protecting pharma revenue), or they were scared to pull such a valuable broad spectrum antibiotic.

Cipro was force fed to soldiers during the first Iraq Gulf War (on a non-proven claim that it could protect against anthrax). The last few years, since the FDA slapped a warning on it for peripheral neuropathy (and seeing as it's being implicated in two dozen other major health problems), veterans groups have been looking into it as a possible source of gulf war syndrome. [1]

There are increasing links suggesting the huge increase in women being diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, may in fact be effects due to how common Cipro has been prescribed for things like urinary tract infections. If you get injured by Cipro, doctors will often immediately jump to diagnosing you with one of three things (typically ignoring the blatant Cipro tie): lactic acidosis, rheumatoid arthritis, or fibromyalgia.

It's merely my opinion, but I think Bayer is probably due a trillion dollar lawsuit. Anyone that has ever taken Cipro has likely suffered serious damage from it, which may not show up for many years (the FDA says the damage from Cipro may continue for several years). At least in the US, millions of people are prescribed it every year.

[1] https://www.militarytimes.com/2013/11/01/new-fda-warnings-on...

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#160

This article seems to be a low quality review of other research with a clickbatey title (full text here: https://www.jpmph.org/journal/view.php?doi=10.3961/jpmph.16.... ). Pubmed is sort of like arxiv.org and the fact this has an nih.gov base url should not be taken as an endorsement of it by the NIH. That said I do actually believe that more then the recommended amount of vitamin D can be beneficial and the recommen…

Just to back this up: the journal it's published in has a very very low impact factor of 0.235 (i.e. it publishes 4x more papers that it gets citations, probably most of it's papers are never cited by anyone) [1]. If this paper was considered a big a deal by the wider research community you would expect it to be published in a high profile journal. [1]: https://journal.komci.org/ViewJournalInfo.php?JID=109#Impact...

Do you know why this is the case? Is there some flaw in their methodology?
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