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Lessons of an MIT Education

math.tamu.edu

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Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#151

Post by bjourne »

csa wrote: post #78
bjourne wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then one should prefer the universities in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. Students from those countries outclass everyone else on every level of the education system. Just look at PISA results and TIMSS -- it is almost scary how good they are. In fact, one should avoid all American colleges since American students are quite a bit below the international average on those rankings!

Hmmm... Im not sure I should respond given your straw man response, but just so others can keep the record straight... 1. PISA is a widely administered test for 15 year olds. 2. TIMSS is a widely administered test for 4th and 8th graders (Advanced TIMMS does "last year of secondary"). 3. We are talking about university -- specifically elite universities. 4. I am extremely familiar with education in East Asia (most fa…

1-2. I know the tests are administered to school children. But academic success in school translates to academic success later in life.

3. What makes you think that MIT would be more elite than elite universities in other countries? Talent follows a normal distribution and if PISA and TIMMS show that the American mean is below the average, the American elite must also be below the average. So, if the most gifted American students are admitted to MIT and the most gifted Singaporean students are admitted to the Nanyang Technological University (NTU), the latter university will contain the more gifted students. And if it is true, that you claim, that the quality of the education is dependent on the skill level of your peers, then NTU must be (much) better than MIT.

4. You can't measure creative thinking and the "Asians may be good at math, but they aren't creative" thing is a cliche.

I don't have anything against US schools or elite universities. Rather it would be you who have something against non-elite universities because you are claiming that you can't acquire the same education at other non-brand name universities. My claim is merely that one can excel at any university in any country as long as one puts in the time and effort. Especially when talking about math. You need a book, pen and paper and solitude and you're set.

I would be happy to put my money where my mouth is and run down to my local university with your hard calculus final. :)

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#152

Post by kelukelugames »

pjscott wrote: post #144
kelukelugames wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Peterson's claim that only men have high enough motivation to be successful in competitive industries. His view is problematic because some VCs grill female founders not on their products but on their motivation level and how they will take care of their kids. Most power couples I know hire nannies. It's common enough where people shouldn't ask. Anyway, I concede people can be good in one way or another…

I was curious to see if he'd actually said that or if you were misrepresenting a more reasonable claim. I'm not familiar with Jordan Peterson but managed to find this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV2yvI4Id9Q ... in which he says that high-powered careers are very unpleasant due to hyper-competition among people who are exceptionally willing to tilt their work-life balance way toward work, and that most (but…

No, that would be at least be a somewhat defensible claim. Peterson literally says some men have crazy high motivation and women don't. It's not from this video.

I saw it when one of my co workers started sending my Peterson vids. God, I wish I never heard of this guy.

Okay, I made the mistake of watching the linked video. At one point he claims the old boys' club doesn't exist at law firms. I mean...where did the term come from?

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#153

Post by skybrian »

foldr wrote: post #23
hudibras wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he was that harsh, and he actually praised the "knowing what" subjects. He simply meant that at MIT , the "knowing how" is more important.

What I don't understand about this comparison is that there's actually an awful lot of "knowing what" involved in math and science too. You won't get far in solving math problems if you try to derive everything from first principles. You could make fun of historians for learning lists of dates, but you could also make fun of mathematicians for learning lists of trigonometric identities.

It seems like a mathematician should be able to derive a trig identity if asked? Otherwise you don't know it very well.

Often mathematicians will make informal arguments but the idea is that you should be able to add rigor when needed.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#154

Post by bjourne »

rueynshard wrote: post #111
bjourne wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then one should prefer the universities in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. Students from those countries outclass everyone else on every level of the education system. Just look at PISA results and TIMSS -- it is almost scary how good they are. In fact, one should avoid all American colleges since American students are quite a bit below the international average on those rankings!

Students in elite American universities (ivy-plus) come from the top 1% of all American students in their cohort, not to mention other countries. However dismal American performances in PISA/TIMSS and other tests have been, the top 1% of roughly 3 million students every year are still bound to be generally smarter and more motivated than the average Singaporean or Japanese student.

What makes you think other countries does not also have "elite" universities? China and India has five times the population of the US and several universities which are harder to get into than MIT. Fwiw, I don't believe in the theory of the GP. Math is a subject best done by yourself so what your peers know or not doesn't matter, imho.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#155

Post by mmirate »

dougmwne wrote: post #6

The author was quite harsh on the soft sciencies and humanities and I'm going to attempt a defense. First, he characterises these subjects as merely what, facts to be learned, instead of how, skills to be mastered. Let's take history, which seems very what, full of dates and names. A great course in history teaches you how to think differently and with deeper context about world events and your country's politics. I…

> treat people as machines

We are machines. Squishy, carbon-based machines with certain unique computational capabilities, I'll grant - but still, machines.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#156

Post by Klauster »

jancsika wrote: post #43

> It is demoralizing to give a young person role models of Beethoven, Einstein, and Feynman, presented as saintly figures who moved from insight to insight without a misstep. There isn't a single Beethoven scholar I can think of who seriously entertains the idea of Beethoven being a "self-generating" genius who never made mistakes. Also, the Beethoven pieces that today's composers most admire-- the late string quarte…

Yes, scholars. Maybe it's a generational thing. Young people have too many people they have to compare to. You have to be great at everything! I'm hearing that high schoolers don't have confidence anymore.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#157

Post by Spooky23 »

dougmwne wrote: post #6

The author was quite harsh on the soft sciencies and humanities and I'm going to attempt a defense. First, he characterises these subjects as merely what, facts to be learned, instead of how, skills to be mastered. Let's take history, which seems very what, full of dates and names. A great course in history teaches you how to think differently and with deeper context about world events and your country's politics. I…

He’s an engineer or scientist. The world needs engineers and scientists, and it makes them feel good to assert their superiority.

At the end of the day, these guys always work for somebody, who is usually some sort liberal arts or business major. It’s something to keep in perspective when somebody asserts that math and science run the world.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#158

Post by mmirate »

dougmwne wrote: post #129
czbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are machines - simply meat machines. The underlying mechanics and operating systems differ, but the processes and 'tasks to be done' are similar. =) IMHO

Meatsack.WhoIs:[your_owner] Meatsack.PurchaseRequest:[internal_organs]

If the purchase-price being offered exceeds the sum I think I'll be able to give my heirs as inheritance, then I should actually accept that transaction.

Re: Lessons of an MIT Education

#159

Post by pkrumins »

ooronning wrote: post #134
pkrumins wrote: post #125

Lesson zero: You don't need an education.

found the self-taught programmer :) No offense intended; I'm self-taught as well and can appreciate the sentiment immensely. But damn do I wish I made a few different decisions during high school. I'm ~1 year into my web development career and I'm concerned about what happens when I get bored of building APIs and web apps -- I seem to have a talent for picking up new skills pretty quickly, but I'm afraid my lack of f…

Come work for me. I only hire people without college degrees. I consider college degrees a red flag.
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