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Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

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Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#151

Post by twiss »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #147
twiss wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And when this changes? Must I audit the code every single time I load the code? Because yes, I need to do that to ensure you havn't changed anything. No. The whole point of what I've done and made is to make sure you don't have to do this. The Service Worker checks all code that is coming from the server. If you've opened Airborn OS before on a computer, and don't see a notification saying that Airborn OS has been…

I'm glad you think that. I still don't trust you, nor do I trust that you will never be breached in such a way that a malicious update will be pushed. Everything you're saying still depends on me trusting you. What if this is my first time loading? How do I know you're not serving up new files that don't contain checks to be visitors? Moreover, are you insinuating that you will never update any code and that expect t…

> What if this is my first time loading?

Like I said, it's trust-on-first-use. This is no different from installing a desktop app.

> How do I know you're not serving up new files that don't contain checks to be visitors?

The Service Worker is installed on your own computer, and is still there the next time you open the web app.

> How does the code prevent changes to the initial code loaded on a request? Which could in theory manipulate the Dom before the service worker could attempt to verify the page, if I'm understanding you correctly.

https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_AP...

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#152

Post by twiss »

EGreg wrote: post #146
twiss wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, that first visit which installs the service worker can already deliver bad code. Yes, but that is also the case when you install a desktop app. That's why Airborn OS is open source, so that you can inspect the code.

Agreed but with a desktop app, the author can sign it and the OS verifies that signature. Sadly the Web does no such thing with the top level document.

Yes, that's true, but the author (or intermediary-who-delivers-the-binary) can also.. not sign it (deliver an unsigned version). Often, you don't have many other options than to trust the binary the website is serving you.

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#153

Post by 2474 »

twiss wrote: post #12
2474 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I would have chosen a better way to imply that.

Hmm. Do you mean it sounds like we'll get hacked any day now? Do you have a suggestion for better wording?

No, I don't necessarily think it implies you'll be hacked immediately, or anytime for that matter.

I definitely get what you are trying to do though. It's so secure it doesn't matter if someone has the data.

Perhaps some clever illustration depicting the odds of cracking AES-256 (e.g. a man fishing in the ocean but there's only one fish to be caught). Visuals can be a great way to convey complex concepts.

I don't think what you have is a huge red flag but someone might read it and say "Whoa, ok, it sounds secure but what about other systems they have in place? Are they insecure, are people trying to get at my data 24/7 on their servers, etc.

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#154

Post by 2474 »

fiatjaf wrote: post #42
twiss wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Do you mean it sounds like we'll get hacked any day now? Do you have a suggestion for better wording?

Your current copy tells something very real and concrete to the user, gives him valid information. It is useful. All suggestions in this thread ("it is secure!") are just marketing gibberish, slogans without any meaning. If you intend to appeal to a large, stupid audience, maybe they're good, but it is a little dishonest.

While you are right, it wouldn't be that great of an idea for Honda to market their new airbags by saying "Next time you get into that accident, at least your face won't be smashed into a million pieces by your wind shield!".

While what he has is fine, you can convey the same sentiment without saying "Even if we get hacked..."

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#155

Post by q-base »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #147
twiss wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And when this changes? Must I audit the code every single time I load the code? Because yes, I need to do that to ensure you havn't changed anything. No. The whole point of what I've done and made is to make sure you don't have to do this. The Service Worker checks all code that is coming from the server. If you've opened Airborn OS before on a computer, and don't see a notification saying that Airborn OS has been…

I'm glad you think that. I still don't trust you, nor do I trust that you will never be breached in such a way that a malicious update will be pushed. Everything you're saying still depends on me trusting you. What if this is my first time loading? How do I know you're not serving up new files that don't contain checks to be visitors? Moreover, are you insinuating that you will never update any code and that expect t…

I have nothing to do with this product, and although you appear a little negative towards the OP, it still seems as though you have quite a lot of knowledge in this area. So you peaked my interest. What what you do to avoid the scenarios you highlight?

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#156

Post by sushid »

twiss wrote: post #69
sushid wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like holding down a key does different things in different language alphabets. I can't seem to hold down a key and have it type the same character repeatedly in English, however (e.g. press a, expect aaaaaaa... until key up).

Weird. What browser and operating system are you using, and which locale/keyboard layout? (Not sure which of those matter, but it works fine for me.)

OSX 10.10 MBP 2015, Chrome (latest). I was using just regular ol' English. Changing to Korean works as expected though.

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#157

Post by pmontra »

twiss wrote: post #52
Filligree wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main use case for Docs is collaborative fiction writing. There's no concept of "paragraph ownership"; there will be two or more people editing the document, and we'll go over it a half-doze or more times, editing as we go. The ability to make arbitrary changes is essential for this.

There's no permanent paragraph ownership in Airborn OS either, but it's locked for about 10 seconds when you edit a paragraph. Or are you saying that the two editors would be editing the same paragraph at the same time?

I use Google Docs only for work. It never happened that we inadvertently deleted each other's work but it happens that we have cursors in the same paragraph.

Maybe there are multiple reasons for that.

One is that we're not in the business of trolling coworkers and losing time, quite the opposite. However I can understand that when I was little that would be fun sometimes.

Another reason is that we often use another channel to coordinate our work, email (I'll be working on that), chat or voice calls. The risk of undoing someone's work is nil.

With the approach of Airborn it could happen that I have to say "please move your cursor somewhere else so I can show you an alternative" or fix a typo. That would be odd and make us lose time.

Re: Show HN: Airborn – Private Google Docs Alternative

#158

Post by [deleted] »

twiss wrote: post #151
jimktrains2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you think that. I still don't trust you, nor do I trust that you will never be breached in such a way that a malicious update will be pushed. Everything you're saying still depends on me trusting you. What if this is my first time loading? How do I know you're not serving up new files that don't contain checks to be visitors? Moreover, are you insinuating that you will never update any code and that expect t…

> What if this is my first time loading? Like I said, it's trust-on-first-use. This is no different from installing a desktop app. > How do I know you're not serving up new files that don't contain checks to be visitors? The Service Worker is installed on your own computer, and is still there the next time you open the web app. > How does the code prevent changes to the initial code loaded on a request? Which could i…

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