Indiana Purging Voters Using Software That’s 99% Inaccurate • Hacker News Board

Re: Indiana Purging Voters Using Software That’s 99% Inaccurate

#151

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 9:38 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #118

pjc50 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was America actually a democracy prior to the voting rights act of 1965? (Not trolling, this is a critical part of the issue, the extent to which black people could actually participate in said democracy)

"Stable, prosperous" stands in for "democracy" in most discussions, this one included. Things that look like democracy (peaceful succession, generally non-violent political competition, an electorate too vast to bribe outside policy channels, checks and balances, et cetera ) simply have the best track record in achieving this aim.

> "Stable, prosperous" stands in for "democracy" in most discussions

"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

I can see where you're coming from, and it's the view that has led the US to support undemocratic rightwing parties over democratic leftwing ones in a lot of places. Including some parts of the US.

> generally non-violent political competition

The US is a little strange on this one, in that armed revolution against the government seems to be something that people talk about all the time but never do.

Re: Indiana Purging Voters Using Software That’s 99% Inaccurate

#152

Post by ch4s3 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 1:07 PM UTC

masonic wrote: post #141

ch4s3 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-citizens voting is still in person voter fraud. I'm sure it has happened, but it is vanishingly rare, you citation is about 1 person. There is simply no incentive to commit that crime. Even less so if you're a non-citizen, because if you're caught you'll be deported. Very few people commit crimes where they have nothing to gain, a lot to lose, and a high chance of being caught. It is almost a non-issue. There is…

There is simply no incentive to commit that crime. There is exactly the same incentive as that to suppress a vote for the other side.

That's completely untrue. If you can effectively as a legislative body identify demographics that reliably vote for your opposition and can identify their preferred voting methods you can target them with legislation or voter roll purges. The North Carolina state government was found by district courts to have done exactly that. The motivation is clear; stay in power. The path is similarly clear; purge your opponents supporters from the voting rolls, remove the voting mechanisms they use e.g. early voting, and require hard to obtain ID to vote, making exception for you own constituents e.g. Texas' allowance for concealed carry permits.

So we have both motivation, means, and evidence of states doing this. What more do you need?

Re: Indiana Purging Voters Using Software That’s 99% Inaccurate

#153

Post by jerf » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #112

jerf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of my knowledge, you are correct that Democrats do not typically purge the rolls. Their strategy is to get dead people to vote, and to bus people around to vote fraudulently in multiple districts. Of course both parties cheat at as large a scale as they can get away with. If nothing else, if you really must conceptualize the Democrats as wholly good without a spot of blemish on them, then how can you beli…

There is, of course, zero evidence of any of the allegations you mention. But there's ample evidence of voter suppression by Republicans. You need to focus more on the evidence.

Tu quoque. There's plenty of evidence, just like there's been plenty of evidence for years that Hollywood is full of predators. In fact, the same people who saw it as their job to not report anything about the Hollywood issues to you see it as their job to not report anything to you that might make it look like Democrats cheat on the voting.

Everybody knows Hollywood is full of predators. Everyone knows Democratic precincts have lots of dead voters. The only people who don't know are people who are going through a lot of effort to ensure that they don't know.

(Also, in the next couple of months it seems decent odds that "Everyone knows the Clintons are corrupt crooks" is going to be coming out in force. Everyone has known, except those who have all but deliberately sought to keep themselves in the dark.)

To say that there is "no evidence" means either A: you are in a filter bubble several feet thick or B: you are deliberately keeping this information from yourself.

Re: Indiana Purging Voters Using Software That’s 99% Inaccurate

#154

Post by masonic » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #149

masonic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't because you can't. A Freedom of Information Act disclosure showed Chicago had more votes than voters in 2016 elections: 1,101,178 voters, 1,115,664 votes cast[2]. Detroit: voting machines in more than one third of precints recorded more votes than there were voters! In California, 11 counties have more registered voters than voting age citizens. A few other examples: https://www.theepochtimes.com/in-los-ang…

Is this a problem of people voting when they aren't supposed to, or a problem with the voting machines, or the vote counting process? Unless the level of criminality by members the public in Chicago is truly mind-boggling (Thousands of people casting dozens of votes each), I'd speculate that the problem lies higher up the tree of elected and unelected office. Or perhaps in the counting methodology used to come up wit…

  Unless the level of criminality by members the public in Chicago is truly mind-boggling

It is and has been for over a century. The tradition of "walking-around money"[1], where public funds are actually used for cash bribes on the streets, is one obvious example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_money