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Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

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Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#151

Post by peoplewindow »

state_less wrote: post #145
c3534l wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is this verifiable evidence so I can actually verify it?

Don Jr. personally admitted to meeting with Russians. [1] http://www.npr.org/2017/07/12/536782047/donald-trump-jr-admi...

"A lawyer who happened to be Russian" is not the same thing as "the Russians", the latter implying some sort of official Russian government conspiracy - presumably at vast scale, to affect something as large as the US election.

I too would like to see this verifiable evidence. So far all evidence presented of so-called Russian "interference" isn't even remotely credible.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#152

Post by shallot_router »

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

>There are also things like Kaspersky previously volunteering to provide complete source access to the government. Our government declined the offer. How does this make sense?

First, even if they were giving access to their genuine source code repository, there's absolutely no guarantee that the binaries aren't backdoored by Kaspersky, FSB, or both. Alternatively, they could just hand over a phony copy of the source.

It's kind of a pointless offer. There's no real reason to deny, but there's also no reason to accept. If the fear is that their products might be influenced or backdoored by hostile intelligence agencies, the only reasonable solution is a total boycott.

(And yes, I very much understand the exact same could be said of the NSA and a lot of US-made software.)

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#153

Post by peoplewindow »

0xfeba wrote: post #67
indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

I'm so skeptical now of skeptical Russia posts. A 25 day old account who's first comment [0] was about media and divisiveness. 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15336362

And you signed up about a year and a half ago - just the right time to try and influence the US election. Perhaps you work for a western intelligence agency.

Or perhaps you are easily manipulated by the media.

I've been called Russian on various forums several times. I am actually British and have never even been to Russia. My crime was to point out the flimsy nature of so many of the allegations regarding Russian involvement in, well, pretty much everything.

There are lots of people in the world right now who psychologically can't accept the fact that Trump and Brexit won and have descended into a sort of group hysteria as a result.

This idea that the Russian government spends its time/money trying to influence US politics by posting to Hacker News of all places should fail any basic test of common sense and logic. But it's so tempting to believe in this conspiracy theory, because then difficult questions like "why did Trump win" and "why do people hate Hillary so much" and "are there Trump supporters in my own circle of friends and family" can all be ignored. It's not really America, it's actually some vast subtle manipulation by a foreign government! And if anyone questions the unreliability of US intelligence, that's just more proof that it's really happening!

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#154

Post by peoplewindow »

pohl wrote: post #129
indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia Our current president has never had a critical thought enter his mind and not have it escape his lips, or his tweeting fingertips – yet Russia (and Putin in particular) have never been in his crosshairs. I think that this fact directly cont…

He's not criticised New Zealand either, as far as I know. So what?

What Trump disrespects tends to be predictable: not tough enough, too friendly to foreigners, not conservative enough etc. Putin happens to be tough, conservative and not especially friendly to foreigners, all attributes that Trump respects and yet which are not very common amongst world leaders.

It helps that Putin doesn't speak English and - fantasies by Clintonites aside - isn't actually doing much around the world outside of Syria, a place where they mostly spend their time bombing ISIS (something Trump approves of). So there isn't much reason for Trump to talk about them, beyond the constant Russia-linked attacks on him.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#155

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #102
spaceseaman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans. I imagine that's why the government and the media are running wild with it. Mueller is still investigating. I would say…

>I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans. That might be new for a lot of Americans, but not for anyone who has ever paid any sort of attention to international politics. In reality it would've been bigger news if Russia hadn't tried to influence our election. And that's not specific to Russia, I'd say that about any major economic power incl…

[deleted]

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#156

Post by peoplewindow »

campuscodi wrote: post #124

Has anyone else noticed the influx of anti-Russia articles on the WSJ lately?

WSJ and any other media outlet aligned with the globalist, pro-Clinton, pro-EU world view.

I knew the whole "Putin ate my election" angle was getting completely out of control when I started seeing people claim, with a straight face, that Russian interference was somehow behind Brexit. It's the same people making the same tenuous claims about any political change they hate - it's not legitimate because anyone who disagrees with me has been brainwashed by tweets.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#157

Post by deeth_starr_v »

Count me as a skeptic on this one. NSA employee/contractor takes home classified docs and I am assuming hacking tools, Kaspersky detects the hacking tools and uploads them to Kaspersky, Kaspersky determines it's NSA tools, notifies the Russian government, Russian government hacks the computer and gets all files. Then somehow NSA is able to deduce all this information. I'm not saying this is not possible, but I think their level of conviction on this is too high. A home computer is not going to have access logs. So let's say they see NSA malware in the Kaspersky quarantine folder, and there is also other malware on the computer. They of course have to assume the worst, that Russia got all the files. But they are making a couple big logical jumps without proof. This article is just to sketchy on details for me to take it credibly.

Makes me think of the claim Cuba is using some kind of new radio brain weapon on US consulate workers in Cuba.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#158

Post by dragonwriter »

peoplewindow wrote: post #156
campuscodi wrote: post #124

Has anyone else noticed the influx of anti-Russia articles on the WSJ lately?

WSJ and any other media outlet aligned with the globalist, pro-Clinton, pro-EU world view. I knew the whole "Putin ate my election" angle was getting completely out of control when I started seeing people claim, with a straight face, that Russian interference was somehow behind Brexit. It's the same people making the same tenuous claims about any political change they hate - it's not legitimate because anyone who dis…

> WSJ and any other media outlet aligned with the globalist, pro-Clinton

No News Corp outlet is aligned with pro-Clinton anything.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#159

Post by nickbauman »

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

> Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war

Remember Vietnam? Same thing happened. GoT Incident was a joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#160

Post by 0xfeba »

peoplewindow wrote: post #153
0xfeba wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so skeptical now of skeptical Russia posts. A 25 day old account who's first comment [0] was about media and divisiveness. 0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15336362

And you signed up about a year and a half ago - just the right time to try and influence the US election. Perhaps you work for a western intelligence agency. Or perhaps you are easily manipulated by the media. I've been called Russian on various forums several times. I am actually British and have never even been to Russia. My crime was to point out the flimsy nature of so many of the allegations regarding Russian in…

I'm just saying I based my judgement on the content before, but having seen others dig through other posters' comment history to find pro-Russia patterns gives me pause now.

And even if it is still just about content, it's a lot easier to spread BS than it is to refute it.

> This idea that the Russian government spends its time/money trying to influence US politics by posting to Hacker News of all places should fail any basic test of common sense and logic. But it's so tempting to believe in this conspiracy theory, because then difficult questions like "why did Trump win" and "why do people hate Hillary so much" and "are there Trump supporters in my own circle of friends and family" can all be ignored. It's not really America, it's actually some vast subtle manipulation by a foreign government! And if anyone questions the unreliability of US intelligence, that's just more proof that it's really happening!

I am not totally disconnected from people who support Trump, unlike the stereotypical liberal coastal megalopolis dweller. But it seems pretty clear at this point that Russia has, and is continuing to, sow dissent in America. Not by hacking election machines or anything clearly aggressive, but by thousands of twitter, disquss, and facebook troll accounts. I do not ignore any "difficult" questions because of it.

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