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Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

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Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#151

Post by samoright »

derenrich wrote: post #147
samoright wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for commenting here! I am curious. Can you be a little specific and tell us what Linux or Unix experience do you have? I mean can you specify the Linux distro names and the Unix brand names (AIX, Solaris, etc.) that you have worked with?

wait do people actually think this position requires Unix (not linux) experience? I assumed the recruiter must just be wrong there.

It is not uncommon to come across open positions that actually do require Unix (not Linux) experience.

For example, American Express has a large deployment of AIX systems and they indeed look for candidates with experience in AIX systems, although I believe someone with experience in another Unix or Unix-like system should also be okay.

But I agree that such openings are usually quite specific about which Unix system they are working with.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#152

Post by JoshCole »

aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

Don't take all the feedback in the thread to heart. The fact of the matter is that even if you were more condescending than you desired to be, the joke in this thread about plumbers and pipes is also true. The end of the chain really does enter an absurd territory that narrows things down such that the recruiter was either failing very badly at understanding your emails, lying about his reason for rejecting you, or not even reading the emails. There is a very gross lack of comprehension in his later responses. It eclipses your condescension, by far. If it didn't, your post wouldn't be at the top of Hacker News.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#153

Post by LeoNatan25 »

marktam264 wrote: post #45

so you didn't get the internship. did you get one with a different place, after all of that? if not, do you think your response and this subsequent post increase your marketability?

> this subsequent post increase your marketability?

It did in my eyes.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#154

Post by aspyrx »

samoright wrote: post #135
aspyrx wrote: post #128

Hey folks, I'm the student writing the emails in the post here. Thanks to everyone for their criticisms. While I was initially kind of shocked by the recruiter's response, I've had a lot of time to think about it today and have realized that I was being pretty damn condescending and spoke out of line without regards to the context. It's been a hard lesson learned. I honestly regret the whole exchange, and posting it…

Thank you for commenting here! I am curious. Can you be a little specific and tell us what Linux or Unix experience do you have? I mean can you specify the Linux distro names and the Unix brand names (AIX, Solaris, etc.) that you have worked with?

RE: Linux distros, I am familiar with Ubuntu, Debian, and Arch Linux. To some extent RHEL as well. RE: Unix (commercial brand names), none. It was my fault that I assumed the recruiter meant UNIX-like systems.

I can claim experience with developing userland applications portable across POSIX-compliant systems, as well as some understanding of lower-level operating system concepts. However, to be honest it seems I am unqualified for the role as specified, which makes the exchange all the more embarrassing. Oh well, what's done is done.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#155

Post by tristor »

foo101 wrote: post #120
gargarplex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an extremely fine line between speaking the layperson's terminology and lying. Wrong: "Yep, I have UNIX experience!" Right: "These days, the phrases 'UNIX' and 'UNIX-like systems' are used interchangeably. Please double check this with your hiring manager to confirm that we're on the same page."

Wrong: "Yep, I have UNIX experience!" Right: "Yep, I have Unix experience! I have worked on Solaris which is a bonafide Unix system. I also have experience with Unix-like systems like FreeBSD and Debian GNU/Linux."

Solaris and AIX /are/ UNIX. Solaris is derived from SunOS, which is derived from 4.2BSD, which was directly licensed by Sun from AT&T via a UNIX source license. Solaris and SunOS were both certified as UNIX.

Similarly IBM licensed AT&T UNIX and derived AIX. It is still certified as UNIX.

The Open Group holds the UNIX trademark and copyrights and conducts the certification and licensing process these days.

See here: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

You've posted functionally the same comment multiple times in this thread. No matter how many times you say it, you are technically incorrect. UNIX is a valid piece of terminology when referring to commercial Unix OSes.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#156

Post by Spooky23 »

kev009 wrote: post #64

Sort of off topic but I am just kind of wondering if there is a safety net if I ever burn out, and how much money I am potentially not earning :o)... Any chance someone on here that was deeply technical transitioned into recruiting? Will you spill the beans like compensation ranges, per head bonus/commission, and satisfaction? As an engineering manager I've done all my own recruiting and have been recognized by my ma…

It's not a bad gig, but it's sales. You need to fill and maintain your funnel of both candidates and customers.

Typically you get a cut of the action (10-20% of first year salary or annual rate) or spiffs. If you have a good network of contacts, you may be able to specialize in some niche that pays more.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#157

Post by Retra »

bitexploder wrote: post #100
Aeolun wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are your weaknesses? I don't play well with idiots, or nonsensical bullshit.

Recruiter is not a technical person. If you want technical people recruiting you work somewhere smaller. The real weakness is inability to communicate with non-technical members of staff.

The recruiter needn't even be a person. A blind monkey can detect that "UNIX" doesn't match "Linux and UNIX-Like" and reject an application. Pure text matching. Recruiter literally doesn't even need to know how to read.

Most people can't communicate with blind monkeys though, so I wouldn't fault anyone for failing here either.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#158

Post by monktastic1 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #9

This is not the right attitude to bring in to the workplace. You'll have a range of people from executives, to clients to co-workers in other departments who don't know what UNIX, APIs and POSIX are. If you can't communicate technical matters nicely then you have not yet developed the right attitude for a professional working environment. It's the same thing with doctors when they create metaphors to explain complica…

Recruiter: "We're looking for students with experience working on Linux and Unix. If you do not meet the above ..."

Stanley: "As per my previous email, I have experience working on Linux and Unix ..."

Recruiter: "Your email and resume say Unix-like systems, which is not exactly Unix."

What is the point of the recruiter's last email, claiming that the email doesn't say Unix, when it clearly does? It looks to me as though Stanley was crystal clear at this point, and the recruiter still wouldn't have any of it.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#159

Post by akhilcacharya »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #65
jdavis703 wrote: post #9

This is not the right attitude to bring in to the workplace. You'll have a range of people from executives, to clients to co-workers in other departments who don't know what UNIX, APIs and POSIX are. If you can't communicate technical matters nicely then you have not yet developed the right attitude for a professional working environment. It's the same thing with doctors when they create metaphors to explain complica…

> You'll have a range of people from executives, to clients to co-workers in other departments who don't know what UNIX, APIs and POSIX are. Yes, but if a recruiter is attempting to convince the smartest people at top universities to come be an intern at their company, they should know the difference (or practical lack thereof) between linux and unix. Or at least they should be smart enough to not triple-down on that…

> Yes, but if a recruiter is attempting to convince the smartest people at top universities to come be an intern at their company

aaand now I understand why he is how he is.

Re: Facebook recruiting and Unix systems

#160

Post by aspyrx »

Spooky23 wrote: post #139
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It looks like the recruiter is clueless or maybe even trolling, and applicant was going out of their way to be helpful. They could have just updated their resume, and allowed the recruiter to remain ignorant, but imo that would have been very rude.

If you're looking for someone who has actual high level expertise working on AIX or FreeBSD, having some dude tell you that Linux is the same as Unix or asserting that knowing what POSIX means is equivalent to having production knowledge of AIX/FreeBSD for a production engineering role is not very productive. The recruiter handled himself professionally and should be commended for not being bullied. Mr. Zhang sounds…

I'm going to leave the image up. It's regrettable, but for accountability's sake I don't want to run away from my mistakes. And yeah - I think it boils down to their having strict requirements and large applicant volume, so my response definitely wasn't appropriate there.
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