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Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

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Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#151

Post by mattkrea »

GenericsMotors wrote: post #26
mayank wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no evidence that this fork will gain traction, because it contributes nothing new technically, so it's unlikely we'll reach the point you mention.

But it has a PR open to bolster its "VALUES.md" file, as well as an issue for the most important subject of a logo. There is no doubt that this fork is future of server-side JS.

I truly hope we are about the high water mark for this kind of entirely irrelevant nonsense. It seems at least in this case the majority of the TSC had the sense to properly deem this ridiculous.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#152

Post by [deleted] »

tomcam wrote: post #52
jamescostian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the snark of this comment may push it into obscurity by those who hate snarky comments, I totally agree. I was surprised we could even still have Node.js after the huge Node.js vs io.js debacle. I think all of these arguments are about important issues, but they also can give a very negative impression to outsiders (not to mention how insiders aware of all the facts may feel). That said, I am at least happy to…

Completely agreed, although the parent's post does not appear to be snark to me. I believe it is sincere, and I fear exactly the same outcome.

[deleted]

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#153

Post by PrimHelios »

gaius wrote: post #38
Rjevski wrote: post #18

Does anyone have a TLDR about this story? I haven't had the time to follow all the drama.

Honestly, GitHub gets more like Tumblr every day.

It's been that way for a while. One of the big reasons I up and moved away from it. I only use it to send PRs for Github hosted repos now.

It's amazing how quickly an organization or platform can just die like this. Sure, it isn't dead dead, but it's descended into a pit of political BS and petty drama.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#154

Post by brudgers »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #148
brudgers wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I wrote my previous comment, I went and looked up the applicable code of conduct. [1] I suspect the relevant passage might be: Project maintainers who do not follow or enforce the Code of Conduct in good faith may face temporary or permanent repercussions as determined by other members of the project's leadership. As I said, due process is a three way street. And the more I read the statement linked as the stor…

Thanks for adding this: I don't see evidence to support that conspiracy theory. I see you are concerned with other comments here and elsewhere arguing a conspiracy of some sort to get the author banned. I have no opinion one way or the other on that specific accusation. I also don't think it is germane to my claims in this thread. I was remarking that "Due Process" the specific legal term associated with the how the…

I believe it is likely that the author was told the nature of problem and that the nature of the problem is related to acting in good faith regarding the code of conduct as befits a community leadership position.

At the point where the legalese is called for, the working relationships necessary for a functioning committee within a voluntary association have already broken down. There aren't full time human resource staffers and legal council and there's no lateral move to another department available. The TSC's rules stipulate that removal of a member is by a normal committee motion.

I'm avoiding picking apart the statement because I don't want to pile into the internet witch hunt that is throwing titillation and innuendo at the twitters. I think it is a practical problem regarding the function of the organization. Part of it is probably a result of success changing the organization. Part of it is probably the result of changing attitudes among wider stakeholders. And for better or worse, part of it is probably deliberate choices by the people involved over a period of time.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#155

Post by tracker1 »

rdtsc wrote: post #67

It was pretty hard to discern what happened. A lot of text and veiled insinuations. He is how far I got: It was this article tweeted by Rod: http://quillette.com/2017/07/18/neurodiversity-case-free-spe... Which was noticed by a member of the community: https://twitter.com/captainsafia/status/887782785221615618 Does that describe it? Maybe someone has a more clear summary One thing I noticed is that Node.js community…

Weren't a couple guys at a Python conference fired for telling a joke in a line that someone else overheard? I mean the backlash was just as bad.. but that seems pretty similar.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#156

Post by johnny22 »

GenericsMotors wrote: post #45
parzivalm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you most likely made that comment in jest. Stereotyping everyone into a category like "blue-haired SF nobodies" is rather offensive. Not saying I disagree about the temper-tantrum, but there was no reason to state it in the way you did.

Yes, you are right, it was an unnecessary jab...and I apologise if this offends. The frustrated comment I gave is from the perspective of someone who is not an american; I don't see american californians as the moral authority of how open source software must be developed. It is a sad day when politics must be paramount when contributing to a foss project. If developers wanted this burden they'd need look no further…

> It is a sad day when politics must be paramount when contributing to a foss project

Politics have always been the reason for me. It depends on what you call politics though.

I got involved with FOSS initially because of the GPL. I then found a project whose aims I agreed with, and also had a welcoming environment.

I might contribute a one off patch here or there to some other projects, but the ones I stay are such as those.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#157

Post by gaius »

chis wrote: post #28
mayank wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no evidence that this fork will gain traction, because it contributes nothing new technically, so it's unlikely we'll reach the point you mention.

I'm not an expert, but it seems within the realm of possibility. Despite what hackernews thinks, the forkers have a somewhat reasonable argument, in that Vagg did violate the Code of Conduct (because it is extreme), and the committee voted to ignore it (because he's a valuable contributor). Morality aside, it calls the system into question if someone can violate established rules and get away with it because the judg…

Also, several members of their ruling committee left to make the fork. So it's not just a bunch of randoms, and they might be able to make some meaningful progress on their own.

That's easy enough to answer - look at the commit histories of those four.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#158

Post by gaius »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #29
thwd wrote: post #6

Shame how such a cool project as node.js can drown in political fingerpointing. The only measurement that counts (in my opinion) is cold hard code contributions.

People who choose to contribute under their real names or easily cross-referencible pseudonyms are taking a calculated risk. People who participate in political structures like the TSC -- which despite its name is a political, not a technical effort -- incur risks that are intrinsic to being in a high-profile leadership role. "Cold hard code" contributions are an option available to anyone who feels comfortable with…

If you ever want to leverage your open source activities in the real world, you have no choice. How can you put it on your CV if your name's not on it? Or write a book or give talks at conferences or write a blog etc.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#159

Post by orless »

brudgers wrote: post #137
orless wrote: post #50

What I'm completely missing in this discussion of Code of Conduct violation is a specific list of which actions violated which clauses in this Code of Conduct. I see a list of complaints, but for an outsider it is really hard to follow why these actions are considered to be CoC violations. Take this, for instance: "In [moderation repository discussion], Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had bee…

The code of conduct is here: https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

I'm missing "specific list of which actions violated which clauses in this Code of Conduct", not the Code of Conduct itself.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#160

Post by mzw_mzw »

brudgers wrote: post #135
ChuckMcM wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that this is a false dichotomy. As I see it 'no process' is the state where any process at all may be applied depending on the individuals that come into conflict. As such, that 'no process' state includes all possible processes that might be implemented for any given event. Whereas a process without a notion of due process, is always worse than a process with a notion of due process. I see it as the judgement…

A code of conduct lets people focus on the community purpose of the project. It lets people know what to expect so they can decide "I disagree, and therefore this is not for me," or "I disagree but I can live with it," or "I agree and can live with it." Codes of conduct are practical tools allowing a community to handle people who decide "I disagree and will stay and not abide by it" and then behave in ways that disr…

That sounds romantic, except this whole Code of Conduct thing started with them being imposed on projects by outside activists literally to punish existing contributors for having the wrong politics. I'm not kidding. Look up Opalgate.
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