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We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#151

Post by pg314 »

nextos wrote: post #125
nostromo95 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I only run in Vibrams, it's plainly much better Let me know the next time you see Asbel Kiprop, Eliud Kipchoge or Evan Jager wearing a pair of those.

Marathon shoes are much closer to Vibrams than to regular running shoes. They just have a bit of extra cushion to make a long asphalt running session manageable. In fact, running on Vibrams on sand or grass is very similar to using cleats on the track. I say this as a ex-competitive runner.

> Marathon shoes are much closer to Vibrams than to regular running shoes.

No, they aren't. Track spikes maybe, marathon shoes definitely not.

Have a look at the Adidas Adizero Adios [1], a shoe that Kimetto ran in to set the world record. It has a heel of 26.7 mm, and a heel to toe drop of 9.3 mm, and is quite stiff. A Vibram has maybe 4 mm of rubber, no drop, and is very floppy.

Yes, they are less cushioned than the average running shoe, but they are very far removed from Vibrams. I say this as an amateur runner, but I regularly run 100+ mile weeks.

[1] http://www.runnersworld.com/shoe/adidas-adizero-adios-3-mens

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#152

Post by pg314 »

nextos wrote: post #127
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Aside from the form, I also wonder about the distance. Is it healthy to run long distances at a constant heartrate vs interval training? As described in an article linked in the one posted, humans seem to have evolved to run long distances [1]. I wonder how we could reconcile that with the fact that long distance running at constant pace seems to be bad for our hearts [2]. [1] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/…

From the abstract: However, this concept is still hypothetical and there is some inconsistency in the reported findings. Furthermore, lifelong vigorous exercisers generally have low mortality rates and excellent functional capacity.

I'll take low mortality and excellent functional capacity.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#153

Post by mapleoin »

maxmcorp wrote: post #132

I find it interresting that no one questions the "we are born to run" claim. I have seen very little evidence for that. We are able to run, but that does not mean that running is a good way for us to move in general. Having reached 50+ my estimate is that only 1 in 20 of the people i have known and who has been running still do. Perhaps even less. You simply get too many injuries. Your cortisol levels rise. You destr…

I find it interresting that no one questions the "we are born to run" claim. I have seen very little evidence for that.

There is a link to a study in the first paragraph of the article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1117_041117_...

> The researchers identified a range of physical traits that suggest human ancestors evolved as distance runners. The adaptations helped them chase down prey and compete more effectively with the speedier carnivores on the open plains of Africa, the study says.

> The researchers say adaptations for running stretch back more than two million years, allowing humans to evolve from our apelike ancestors Australopithecus.

> "We think running is one of the most transforming events in human history," Bramble added. "We are arguing the emergence of humans is tied to the evolution of running."

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#154

Post by pbhjpbhj »

WalterSear wrote: post #49
ak217 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike a…

>Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running. So what is going on in this picture? https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif I see the maximum force being applied just as the heel leaves the ground. Maybe the maxima is >just< slightly after, but the heel is still involved.

Looks like over-supination in that picture? The heel is definitely not pushing off, the forefoot is last to touch the ground.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#155

Post by LeifCarrotson »

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

> the gist of the "wrong" is that we've been trained by "trainers" (over-padded athletic shoes) to run in a straight-legged, heel-lands-first manner. When you do that, your knee is locked (or at least straight) as the foot lands, which transmits the force of the landing up your leg and into your lower back.

Any of a sufficiently competent teacher, sufficient miles, or sufficient speed will train you not to do that.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#156

Post by ainiriand »

mabbo wrote: post #90
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

I read 'Born To Run', went out and bought a pair of vibrams, then did a nice jog around a lake, maybe 4-5km. I was running barefoot style, landing more towards my toes and I felt fantastic. The next morning I discovered that apparently, this was the first time I'd ever really used my calves before. I walked like an old man for three days, trying my best not to cry during my stretches. Over time, I got better and took…

I use that technique without Vibrams. I remember years ago when I learnt proper running, same feeling about the calves. So I think it has to do with the technique rather than the shoes.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#157

Post by lazyjones »

If we are born/evolved to run, why do we do it mostly when it's useless to us (i.e. running in circles)?

Running as a sport is, in essence, forcing ourselves to do something we supposedly needed so much as a species that we evolved to be good at it. Our lifestyle has changed dramatically and we obviously don't need it much anymore.

Perhaps we should be running instead of walking whenever possible? I used to do that when I was younger and more impatient (I hated taxis, too), but having sweaty clothes isn't socially acceptable in most cases. Perhaps some research to alleviate this problem would help?

Edit: this looks like an interesting starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_Cooling_and_Ventilation...

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#158

Post by maxmcorp »

mapleoin wrote: post #153
maxmcorp wrote: post #132

I find it interresting that no one questions the "we are born to run" claim. I have seen very little evidence for that. We are able to run, but that does not mean that running is a good way for us to move in general. Having reached 50+ my estimate is that only 1 in 20 of the people i have known and who has been running still do. Perhaps even less. You simply get too many injuries. Your cortisol levels rise. You destr…

I find it interresting that no one questions the "we are born to run" claim. I have seen very little evidence for that. There is a link to a study in the first paragraph of the article: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1117_041117_... > The researchers identified a range of physical traits that suggest human ancestors evolved as distance runners. The adaptations helped them chase down prey and compete…

Yes, but it is all just speculation. And when you compare it to how poorly our bodies handles running now I would say it is a weak argument.

Also the "we can run the prey tired" argument clashes with the observations of hunter gatherers where large animals plays a very small role in day to day diet.

Also there is a very large opportunity cost for running after large pray.

Imagine 5-10 hunters running after a big pray, and not catching it. Now they have been running a half marathon. They might be far from water. They have expended a lot of energy and will be hungry and tired and will have to walk home to camp. With nothing to eat.

I think there is a good reason that hunting aminal usually just sprints for short durations. The other approach is simply too risky.

Nope. Walking it is.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#160

Post by akvadrako »

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

For anyone considering running in Vibrams, take note that the evidence suggests they actually promote injury. I haven't researched it deeply, but this article seems like a good starting point:

https://deadspin.com/the-scientific-case-against-vibrams-fiv...

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