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How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

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Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#151

Post by tw04 »

thriftwy wrote: post #105
alkonaut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a new laptop is slow something must be wrong. Such as it having a mechanical disk. It might not seem like a big problem but it's almost a complete no go with win 10. If there are performance issues/freezing on a machine with 8GB and SSD then something is wrong and you should contact the manufacturer, chances are a bios or driver update will fix it

> Such as it having a mechanical disk. it's almost a complete no go with win 10 Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? You come to store and that's what you get out of it. Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. Lesson to MS: Get your act together or get out of this business. Come back from make-believe world. MS is running on make-believe for the last 10 years. Windows 8, t…

>Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now.

That's factually incorrect. OSX, Windows, Linux, it makes no difference. You cannot hide the 8ms of response time that comes with a crappy laptop spinning drive. If you spend all your time in a web browser with ample amounts of memory... sure. If you're doing ANYTHING that requires disk I/O - whether it be launching a game, or opening a large directory, you will experience significant lag time with a spinning drive.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#152

Post by thriftwy »

tw04 wrote: post #150
thriftwy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad that Windows 10 barely usable on itself. Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. Takes more than a minute to boot on a new and pretty formidable laptop. This is the fresh factory install. Can freeze the desktop while apparently doing something under the hood (installing updates? scanning mal…

>Every application looks different (yes they used to blame Linux/X11 on that one). It has two control panels (or three maybe), two web browsers shipped with it. So you want your cake and you want to eat it too? It's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things into the new "control panel". That's not going to happen overnight, and unless you want to go back to only se…

> 's pretty well known that as part of the new iterative release cycle they're slowly moving things

Linux DEs were blasted for things like that, but now they're suddenly OK for a multi-billion-dollar company's flagship product?

> you're running off a spinning drive

I also happen to walk on the ground and climb up the stairs, being aware of alternatives. That's what I've got in a shop and it has MS Windows logo glued to it.

> I would imagine you've got a garbage hard drive.

I imagine that's what gets sold these days. BTW, I've also bought Xiaomi phone for $200 and it's a real snap.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#153

Post by alkonaut »

deadbunny wrote: post #146
alkonaut wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not - if you try to avoid integrating in any way with the os. Shared-nothing apps are pretty nice. SQL server and a few of the other behemoth apps seem to have a very hard time staying separate from windows which is annoying. In Linux the design benefit is that there are package managers and the flaw is that there are many. Shipping a simple binary installer for multiple distributions is still tricky.

> Shipping a simple binary installer for multiple distributions is still tricky. Because you're bypassing the package manager. Packaging isn't all that hard, much easier than building your own binary installer that handles multiple platforms.

Right. My point was that it's easy to deploy to one or a couple of distributions but still painful to deploy for "Linux" without further specification. Meanwhile on windows their trainwreck of an installation system works for all windows from 95 usually.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#154

Post by thriftwy »

tw04 wrote: post #151
thriftwy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such as it having a mechanical disk. it's almost a complete no go with win 10 Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? You come to store and that's what you get out of it. Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. Lesson to MS: Get your act together or get out of this business. Come back from make-believe world. MS is running on make-believe for the last 10 years. Windows 8, t…

>Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. That's factually incorrect. OSX, Windows, Linux, it makes no difference. You cannot hide the 8ms of response time that comes with a crappy laptop spinning drive. If you spend all your time in a web browser with ample amounts of memory... sure. If you're doing ANYTHING that requires disk I/O - whether it be launching a game, or opening a large dir…

Guess what, Linux distros figured out how to sprint read everything that is needed into RAM and boot under 10 seconds. Windows takes more than a minute on better hardware by seeking the hell out of it.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#155

Post by thriftwy »

alkonaut wrote: post #143
thriftwy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such as it having a mechanical disk. it's almost a complete no go with win 10 Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? You come to store and that's what you get out of it. Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. Lesson to MS: Get your act together or get out of this business. Come back from make-believe world. MS is running on make-believe for the last 10 years. Windows 8, t…

> Why then do Windows 10 laptops get sold with HDDs? Excellent question. These machines should do better with Win7 but Microsoft doesn't want to sell it. Microsoft sells windows 10 and Microsoft sells laptops with Windows 10 on an SSD. I doubt (but do correct me if I'm wrong) Microsoft sells any computers with Windows 10 on a mechanical drive. Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10 on it, but th…

> they can't hit the lowest price segments

That's a lie right here because the laptop in question not low end, definitely middle one.

> Various manufacturers sell underpowered computers with Win10

That was always part of Microsoft deal. You get your computer from a manufacturer other than MS and they still have to deliver experience, and they've failed that one.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#156

Post by gmarx »

tw04 wrote: post #123
CrLf wrote: post #102

I'm still unsure of the usefulness of SQL Server on Linux. I don't see the point of running SQL Server on Linux (I'd rather choose PostgreSQL or something), nor do I see the point of choosing Linux if I'd already settled for SQL Server. I don't think this (in the end) is anything more than a marketing trick, there to give the illusion of choice. This is not uncommon in ISVs, btw. There are many commercial offerings t…

That's because you're missing the point. MS isn't competing against Postgres or MySQL, they're competing against Oracle, DB2, and Hana. All of which have a variant that runs on Linux. They need to be just as flexible as their real competition if they want to continue to expand market share.

meta-point. You could have edited out your first sentence

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#157

Post by thriftwy »

futurix wrote: post #132
eddieroger wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barely usable is dramatic, but the multiple interfaces to do seemingly the same thing is annoying and I agree makes usability a challenge. What differentiates when a setting is in the old Control Panel versus the new one? What's the difference between Edge and Internet Explorer, and why is my browser sometimes a traditional window and sometimes a full screen, touch focused app (this is a gaming PC hooked to a TV, so…

You already know the answer to all of these questions, stop posturing. Yes, Microsoft kept old versions of IE and Control Panel for compatibility - but you don't get to access them unless you really want to. As for full screen browser, touch-optimised IE was in Windows 8. It is not in Windows 10. Your rant is 2 years out of date.

> Microsoft kept... Control Panel for compatibility

Around half settings that the internets tell me to tweak these days are on [the old] Control Panel. Another half is in the registry or group policy or some "Run..." utility and never the new one.

> you don't get to access them unless you really want to

That one is correct, I can never find the thing when it's needed again.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#158

Post by ethbro »

rjbwork wrote: post #133
ethbro wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can count the number of times I've had the OS itself get in my way on 1 hand I could overflow both hands just counting two Explorer things: (1) trying to figure out where MS put a setting/option if it's not on Ribbon & (2) trying to use any advanced search operators.

I usually grep (powershell Get-ChildItem | Select-String) if I'm trying to do anything crazy in searching files.

Then there's also Powershell (as much as it improves on cmd) reminding me of adventure games where I have to remember which of the five synonymous verbs is recognized and does the thing I want.

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#159

Post by cjsuk »

dijit wrote: post #116
cjsuk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly periodic random unexplainable KDC_ERR_C_PRINCIPAL_UNKNOWN which appears to be the Kerberos equivalent of "fuck you!"

Check your ntp; this happens when kerberos loses trust with the principle. Happens on Windows too but they mitigate it by _forcing_ you to use NTP against the AD servers.

We already use NTP (chrony) against the DCs.

We did have some problems with timedatectl being a dick in the early days of CentOS 7 which reported NTP as enabled but it wasn't. That caused the same issue but we resolved that one and it still periodically happens.

I can't quote for the state of the DC's though; they're not mine and I don't want them! :)

Re: How Microsoft brought SQL Server to Linux

#160

Post by tw04 »

thriftwy wrote: post #154
tw04 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, Linux doesn't mind running from HDD. Not ten years ago, not now. That's factually incorrect. OSX, Windows, Linux, it makes no difference. You cannot hide the 8ms of response time that comes with a crappy laptop spinning drive. If you spend all your time in a web browser with ample amounts of memory... sure. If you're doing ANYTHING that requires disk I/O - whether it be launching a game, or opening a large dir…

Guess what, Linux distros figured out how to sprint read everything that is needed into RAM and boot under 10 seconds. Windows takes more than a minute on better hardware by seeking the hell out of it.

That's just not even remotely based in reality. Linux is SIGNIFICANTLY slower to boot on HDD than SSD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgmph_bL8V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Rsr4E6b68

But I would once again question why you care how long it takes to cold boot a laptop. I think my laptop gets cold booted MAYBE once a month.

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