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Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

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Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#151

During WW2, the government wanted to increase production, so did some studies. They found that a 60 hr week boosted production for a couple weeks, but then it fell below what was produced by a 40 hr week. The solution to a sustained increase in output was to do 60 hr weeks in bursts, not continuously.

"In bursts" as in "40 hours with the occasional 60-hour week" or "60-hour weeks with weeks off in between"?

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#152

I love how things like the 40 hour work week with two days off get enshrined as some kind of natural phenomenon that has always been with us. 40 hours is an arbitrary number that came from trade unionists demanding fair hours and Robert Owen's slogan: “Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest.” I mean those two things: 8 hour work day and 8 hours of sleep have been considered to be the biological/…

Elon Musk says entrepreneurs should work 80-100 hours a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtaxU6DZvLs

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#153
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of counterexamples from before that regulation Name one :-)

Literally the entire reason antitrust laws were written? Standard Oil? General Motors? AT&T? A little disingenuous to pretend that never happened.

Let's take Standard Oil. They never had a monopoly - at their peak they had a 90% market share. SO's market share slid steadily throughout the years of the anti-trust trial, and Rockefeller was unable to stem the slide. (The competition figured out how to beat him.)

See "Titan" by Ron Chernow

> pretend

I know what the popular wisdom is. But dig a little deeper and you'll find it is not correct.

> General Motors

was formed in 1908. The Sherman Antitrust Act was in 1890, so GM could not have been the reason for it.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#154
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the entire reason antitrust laws were written? Standard Oil? General Motors? AT&T? A little disingenuous to pretend that never happened.

Let's take Standard Oil. They never had a monopoly - at their peak they had a 90% market share. SO's market share slid steadily throughout the years of the anti-trust trial, and Rockefeller was unable to stem the slide. (The competition figured out how to beat him.) See "Titan" by Ron Chernow > pretend I know what the popular wisdom is. But dig a little deeper and you'll find it is not correct. > General Motors was f…

> GM could not have been the reason for it

...which, to clarify, was not my point.

That is, going back up-thread a bit, it's still clear that capitalism intrinsically encourages monopolistic behavior, and that "government intervention propping up companies" is not the cause.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that even if there were no capitalistic tendency toward actual monopolies, it would still have the same winner-take-all problem, merely due to the prospect of a "winner".

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#155
post #23

I wonder how they got this curve. A lot of things can be sustained for 1 week cannot be sustained in the long term. I'd say in the long term: * 140-168 hours/week --> almost certain death. * 100-140 hours/week --> at risk of cardiovascular disease and many other serious medical conditions. Possible early death. * 80-100 hours/week --> still super-bad for your body. Forget raising children, dating, getting married, or…

If this is your perception of an hourly break down, that's fine. But just because you think working 100 hours a week results in "Possible early death" doesn't mean it's like that for other people.

For example, in your chart, I'm currently in the 60-80 hour a week range, split between a full time job and a side hustle. Personally, I've never been happier, I have a life outside of work, a beautiful girlfriend, time to meet with friends, etc.

It's just, I don't spend 5+ hours a day when i get home from work watching Netflix or fucking around on the weekends. Don't equate hustling with depression, unless you're just looking for an excuse to justify why you don't want to work harder.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#156
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take Standard Oil. They never had a monopoly - at their peak they had a 90% market share. SO's market share slid steadily throughout the years of the anti-trust trial, and Rockefeller was unable to stem the slide. (The competition figured out how to beat him.) See "Titan" by Ron Chernow > pretend I know what the popular wisdom is. But dig a little deeper and you'll find it is not correct. > General Motors was f…

> GM could not have been the reason for it ...which, to clarify, was not my point. That is, going back up-thread a bit, it's still clear that capitalism intrinsically encourages monopolistic behavior , and that "government intervention propping up companies" is not the cause. In fact, I would go so far as to say that even if there were no capitalistic tendency toward actual monopolies, it would still have the same wi…

Every company wants to be a monopoly, sure. But free market forces prevent that from happening. It takes government to prop one up.

A prospect and an actual problem are two different things.

SO was never convicted of being a monopoly, either. A subtle but crucial point, and usually overlooked.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this essentially a winner-take-all situation, though? Capitalism tends towards winner-take-all systems, but not all winner-take-all systems are capitalistic. I find the example fitting.

Capitalism actual doesn't veer toward winner take all. Government does, elections do, etc. Capitalism leads to people voting with dollars so instead of a red or green car being given a vote, the red car may be cheaper if lots of people want it.

elections are winner take all in the literal sense (except where you have representative democracy), but to they extent that they are about policy, i wouldn't say its as simple as that.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#158
post #119
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe those were accounted for in those times with the notion of a stay-at-home spouse (in reality, read: wife) who did most if not all of that non-job work; food purchase/prep, laundry, chores, children, etc.

Correct, which kind of begs the question, why have the work hours not gone down when society started employing both men and women?

Because households basically use all extra income to bid up the cost of real estate in neighborhoods with "better" schools. So if every household has both parents working, then no household is the better off for it. And single parent households are well and truly fucked.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#159
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GM could not have been the reason for it ...which, to clarify, was not my point. That is, going back up-thread a bit, it's still clear that capitalism intrinsically encourages monopolistic behavior , and that "government intervention propping up companies" is not the cause. In fact, I would go so far as to say that even if there were no capitalistic tendency toward actual monopolies, it would still have the same wi…

Every company wants to be a monopoly, sure. But free market forces prevent that from happening. It takes government to prop one up. A prospect and an actual problem are two different things. SO was never convicted of being a monopoly, either. A subtle but crucial point, and usually overlooked.

Free market forces don't prevent it from getting close enough to cause a problem (if that's even possible under capitalism- the problem we're talking about is due to the attempt to gain a monopoly, not having one). I couldn't care less what Standard Oil's maximum market share was, you're arguing an irrelevant technicality.

My point is, again, that in this case the prospect is what causes the problem.

Re: Research does not say that people produce more when working 40 hours per week

#160

I love how things like the 40 hour work week with two days off get enshrined as some kind of natural phenomenon that has always been with us. 40 hours is an arbitrary number that came from trade unionists demanding fair hours and Robert Owen's slogan: “Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest.” I mean those two things: 8 hour work day and 8 hours of sleep have been considered to be the biological/…

I honestly think most programmers do best with about 10 hours of actual coding a week.
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