The truth is those jobs will just go to automation resulting in negative benefits for those making under $15 currently.
A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
151–160 of 235 posts
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#152Opponents of a minimum wage need only believe that increasing the price of a thing tends to proportionally decrease the demand for that thing. This is simply a statement of the law of supply and demand, which is (though weaker) the economic equivalent of physics' F=MA. Proponents of a minimum wage need to believe that in this particular case, raising a price does not proportionally decrease demand. While this may be…
Your conclusion lies on the assumption that rational economists must oppose any measure which decreases demand.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
[withdrawn]
This is an unusually facile remark for you. Here's Max Ehrenfreund's publication history at WaPo. Take a glance across it, and then decide if you're convinced he's essentially a fraud, reporting in bad faith to promote the viewpoints of Jeff Bezos. I wonder if he's ever even met him. https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/max-ehrenfreund/?utm_t...
Not entirely unfair.
I was considering either deleting the post or editing the post to provide a significantly more nuanced criticism before seeing your response and, on reflection, it's just not worth revising.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everyone working 40 hours per week deserves a living wage (...) You can earn a living wage for 40 hours a week doing anything in the US. You just can't afford a new iPhone. All the minimum wage does is makes it impossible to employ low-skill workers. So while before the minimum wage you could make a living, now you either can't make a living or you're effectively in the lower middle class. Ask your dad or granddad w…
> You just can't afford a new iPhone. Or a home. Or a car. Or healthcare. The idea that minimum-wage life in America is in any way up to developed-world standards is horribly, laughably, tragically wrong. Not saying that minimum wage is the answer. Personally, I support abolishing it in favor of a Universal basic Income. But suggesting that the problem it is trying to address isn't even real is... just not correct.
Yes, it does afford you healthcare the way US works right now, if it doesn't, that's a failing of Obamacare. Also, you want to be able to afford a car and a home by working at McDonald's? What are you talking about? And your solution is to not even have people work, just be given money. That's borderline insane. What cozy life do you have to be living to think that you're entitled to these things.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#155I think people are missing the forest for a single tree. Minimum wage is just a small token in the larger discussion of distribution of wealth. Minimum wage is a means to solve the fact that incompetent people monopolize wealth through political connections and spent it on yachts while other people just as smart and motivated try to pay off their college debt.
Let's not make this an "us" and "them" issue. A study can cast doubt on a means, but not on an ends. The fact is that those low-skill jobs will disappear, McDonalds is already replacing its employees with self-order kiosks, Uber isn't trying to hide its plans.
Minimum wage is not the answer, because it doesn't go far enough. Minimum wage doesn't work? Great, let's do universal basic income then.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everyone working 40 hours per week deserves a living wage (...) You can earn a living wage for 40 hours a week doing anything in the US. You just can't afford a new iPhone. All the minimum wage does is makes it impossible to employ low-skill workers. So while before the minimum wage you could make a living, now you either can't make a living or you're effectively in the lower middle class. Ask your dad or granddad w…
Then ask your dad or grandad to adjust for inflation, cost of living, decreased value of both highschool and college degrees, etc.
I'm talking standard of living, not how much they earned. If you think you have it worse or as bad, you don't know anything.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an unusually facile remark for you. Here's Max Ehrenfreund's publication history at WaPo. Take a glance across it, and then decide if you're convinced he's essentially a fraud, reporting in bad faith to promote the viewpoints of Jeff Bezos. I wonder if he's ever even met him. https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/max-ehrenfreund/?utm_t...
Why is it that every time I see you post here, your posts reek with condescension and insults? A lot of us are getting pretty sick of your attitude, regardless of who you are.
As the actual target, I didn't see condescension or insults there, but basically fair criticism (I could quibble with the I implication that the criticism of the output of the reporting/editing/etc. process for one article, including the suggestion of the motivation, was a description of the general character specifically of the reporter, but otherwise it was fair.)
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
If nobody is allowed to offer him work below a particular rate and nobody is willing to pay him at or above that rate, then he's effectively forbidden from working.
Or, if no company is willing to pay a living wage to accomplish a task, does it need to be done?
Perhaps not, or more likely it doesn't need to be done in the jurisdiction of the forced minimum.
For fully localized jobs that cannot move (ex: waiter) that means they probably won't exist at all and the business will close down.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
When a person is desperate, 'voluntary' starts to lose all meaning. If you are dead broke and half starved and I offered you a take it or leave it offer to work carrying rocks for $2 an hour so you can get a sandwich and you agree, is that really voluntary? I do agree with you about teenagers and other people that don't need the money in order to live. For dependents and people that agree not to get public assistance…
Yes, it's much better to prevent any employment opportunity for that person. Situation A: I can choose between no employment (bad), and exploitative employment (slightly less bad). Situation B: With the benevolent intention of a minimum wage legislated into existence, I can "choose" no employment (same bad as before). You don't make someone worse off by increasing the number of options. You don't make people better o…
This all assumes that time is worthless.
The actual equation is [80 hours usable time] vs. [40 hours useable time + some small amount of money].
If I can use that 40 hours to find a better job or train for the future, I would be better off.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#160I find this to be credible - at some level, it'll certainly hurt. The problem as I see it is that some people say "aha, see, that doesn't work", but then stop there. There is a real problem in that some people (not all who make minimum wage, and not only those who make minimum wage) have real problems making ends meet. What's the best way to help them?
Many have trouble making ends-meat because they lack skills that the market will pay for. Long term solution: Get more people skills that employers will pay for. Another solution to help low wage/low skilled workers, is a negative tax rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit
The problem with a negative income tax, especially when coupled with many other means tested programs at the state and federal level, is that you create a situation where there are very high effective marginal tax rates. Sometimes even exceeding 100%.