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Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

computerworld.com.au

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Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#151

Post by FullyFunctional »

indolering wrote: post #89
roryisok wrote: post #82

I always thought ARM chips were RISC. shows what I know

That's how they started out, but there is always pressure to add new instructions for niche markets. But since there isn't any coherent way to implement extensions it means they have to pollute the entire ISA. RISC-V was carefully designed to allow for extensions.

No it was never a [real] RISC. Even the very first version included predication and shift in most instructions. They weren't even fast. The event that changed everything was when DEC Alpha engineers (for reasons I don't know) decided to use their expertise to created StrongARM. This ironically ended up at Intel and was renamed XScale, before being spun out. (EDIT: grammar & typos)

Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#152

Post by Nomentatus »

microtherion wrote: post #42
nickik wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hole point of a free ISA is that many different people can produce them so that it will reach a economy of scale and chip producers will face competition making dirving down price. Its not garantied to work but its a worty target.

With more producers, you get more competition, but LESS economy of scale, and for a product like this (with demand being limited initially), this was already a critical concern.

A point re manufacturing. Still, you get far more economy of scale than a proprietary niche product would have, plus excellent economy of scale re most chip design - where the real expenses are. Runs will be big enough to get most of the manufacturing benefits from scale.

Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#153

Post by Nomentatus »

zanny wrote: post #121
blitmap wrote: post #10

I look forward to a RISC-V proc powering my laptop with some ridiculous Nvidia GPU. We must escape x86 :(

There is some gentle irony in wanting an open source ISA CPU paired with a GPU so proprietary the ISA is not even public knowledge.

"The journey of a thousand miles..."

Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#154

Post by Nomentatus »

restalis wrote: post #147

So many RISC options and almost none for CISC. If you want yet another low power chip, then it makes sense. If, however, you want to get real on efficient cache usage and a high instruction-per-execution ratio, just do yourself a favor and stop ignoring the costly experimenting results that the industry already paid for.

This just doesn't match the research I've read. CISC wasn't about speed of execution, and x86 isn't an asset, there. (As I understand it Intel's expertise in compilers, emulation of CISC by RISC, and manufacturing are wonderful compensating factors.)

Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#155

Post by Nomentatus »

Nokinside wrote: post #133
jbarham wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to be completely tied to ARM. The point is that if you want to use the ARM ISA you have to pay ARM. Not so with RISC-V. Anyone is free to fab a RISC-V chip without paying royalties.

I believe this is incorrect. It seems that there is lots of confusion related to RISC-V. Only RISC-V ISA and some simple (and relatively inefficient) architectural designs are free and without royalties. But when someone develops efficient RISC-V microarchitecture they are not going to provide it free. If some company develops RISC-V based architecture that is competitive with AMD,Intel or ARM, they are going to ask…

Money yes, "good money" that leverages a proprietary network effect, no.

Re: Open-source chip RISC-V to take on closed x86, ARM CPUs

#157

Post by blitmap »

zanny wrote: post #121
blitmap wrote: post #10

I look forward to a RISC-V proc powering my laptop with some ridiculous Nvidia GPU. We must escape x86 :(

There is some gentle irony in wanting an open source ISA CPU paired with a GPU so proprietary the ISA is not even public knowledge.

I'm looking forward to the day we can operate dedicated, proprietary GPUs like black boxes we can turn on and off at will as optional accelerators. :-)
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