Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#151

Post by notlefthanded » Thu, May 04, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #91

ryanmarsh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by 50%. Why? Better coders outside of the US, UK, EUR, etc. One of my clients is one of the largest multinational corp. in the world. They're excellent at getting things done, above average at remote work, and obviously have offices around the world. Their primary industry has a drastically changing demographic in the US which is p…

And who will buy all the neat gadgets that they're producing? It won't be the US; no middle class means no disposable income. It won't be the Chinese; they make everything in house. It probably won't be anyone else in Asia because they'll just buy it from China instead. Devastation of the middle class is about equivalent to devastation of the entire US economy. After we've willingly and successfully transferred all o…

What about Hollywood? And reputation via ivy league education? Also a legal landscape conducive to doing business?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#152

Post by mamcx » Thu, May 04, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #42

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

Just doing the numbers from a stat standpoint, assuming you need to be in the top 2 percent of intelligence to code, there is a latent pool of 42 million developers in China/India waiting for their "go" signal. Best thing to do imo is hoard and deploy money to investments, because capital is set up to clean labors clock in the coming decades.

This is something to happen in latin america too. Here in Colombia (where I live) exist several attemps to build a solid tech scene, but failed by burocracy and lack of competent investors.

The smart people with money that come here can hoard all the good talent easy.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#153

Post by PatrickAuld » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

I think "Advanced Manufacturing Jobs" are going to be roboticist, machine learning and mechanical engineer related. Foxconn is moving this direction and I'm betting Apple thinks they can do it as well as them. Plus possible tax breaks based on Trump's comments.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#154

Post by petra » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:02 PM UTC

Akkuma wrote: post #69

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

I think this is overestimating how qualified the coders are in the east compared to their western peers. Everyone I've known from Hong Kong decried the education of mainland China. They said the education comes down to repeating book knowledge, so just memorization, and the inability to handle scenarios not covered by that. I'll be more concerned once leading technologies that are used by the rest of the world come o…

Aren't the top 1% chinese students/teachers aware of the problem and can do something about it ?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#155

Post by cmahler7 » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:02 PM UTC

bitcrusher wrote: post #102

no1youknowz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something else that should shake US and UK highly skilled workers. Our time will soon come as well. In China, they are racing to match and surpass western standards. I would say, they have already matched in some cases. But unlike the west where companies export out to save costs. Companies in China do everything in-house. There will be a time where these 6 figure jobs that some HN users have, will go down by…

This is the same alarmist outcry that happened in the 90s... "India has a billion people who are educated and cheaper! Outsourcing will kill all the tech jobs!" I think the thing that folks keep missing is that technology isn't a zero sum game. So what if there are a shitload of people in the east doing programming cheaper? 9/10 of the 'type' of programming they're doing is grunt work that no one really wants to do a…

china is the most racist and nationalist country in the world and they are doing just fine.

Why is the US and Europe the only places that have to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of globalism?

Why do China and Japan get free passes while anything done in the west to protect citizens interests is decried as xenophobic?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#156

Post by alexbeloi » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:04 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #87

alexbeloi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing/removing taxes from abroad just incentivizes the firm to move as much of their profit abroad as possible, leaving nothing but domestic holding companies that report losses on behalf of their profitable overseas subsidiaries.

Huh? These customers will sell wherever there are customers. They can't just move their American customers abroad so they earn money from them outside the country.

If there is a 35% tax on profits in the US and a 0% tax in Europe and the cost of customer acquisition is similar, the obvious conclusion is to invest in your European branches until cost of acquisition becomes so high that it makes sense to invest in the US again.

So yes, you cannot immediately trade out American customers for customer abroad, but it makes foreign investments more profitable than domestic ones. Leading the firm to invest more of their earnings abroad rather than domestically, which I believe is the opposite of what you wanted.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#157

Post by LiweiZ » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

bgee wrote: post #143

Akkuma wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is overestimating how qualified the coders are in the east compared to their western peers. Everyone I've known from Hong Kong decried the education of mainland China. They said the education comes down to repeating book knowledge, so just memorization, and the inability to handle scenarios not covered by that. I'll be more concerned once leading technologies that are used by the rest of the world come o…

> Everyone I've known from Hong Kong decried the education of mainland China. I'm not surprised such comment came out from someone in Hong Kong but the truth is the education system in Hong Kong is even more "comes down to repeating book knowledge, so just memorization". Actually, most East Asian education systems have a heavy focus on "book knowledge, so just memorization". Lack of innovation? Just look at Japan. Di…

What the GP mentioned is much closer to regional bias/stereotype. In my opinion, it's all about how much alignment a group of people can have while gearing towards making/producing something better. Japan has way more alignment, while everybody else in the crowded Asia is busy with taking a slightly better position and showing off to neighbours. People truly enjoy this kind of feelings.

I don't think most of readers on HN can get and care about mainlanders' feeling of being somewhat offended in this case. So I just chuckled originally. But I hope my comment can supply some context.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#158

Post by ghostly_s » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #44

> Apple says that it intends to bolster the U.S. manufacturing sector by creating a $1 billion “advanced manufacturing fund” — with some of that initial money going toward a company the tech giant is prepared to partner with, chief executive Tim Cook said. Amazing what passes for news these days. This sounds no different from what they normally do with their supply chain. Anyone remember GT Advanced Technologies? App…

So something counts as business-as-usual now because it was attempted precisely once before, unsuccessfully, in the company's 40 year history?

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#159

Post by yzmtf2008 » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

Chaebixi wrote: post #105

pm90 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American labor was fucked anyways, Globalism only accelerated trends that would have happened anyhow. From a long term perspective, its absolutely amazing that the US has managed to export all the factory level jobs to other countries and yet managed to keep the better paying jobs back here in the states. The current lack of (low skilled) jobs in manufacturing has made it clear to those Americans willing to listen: t…

> American labor was fucked anyways, Globalism only accelerated trends that would have happened anyhow. Globalism didn't "accelerate" trends that would have happened anyhow, it created those trends. American labor is fucked because of globalism. You might argue the standard of living might have ended up the same under protectionist policies (e.g. poor because of high prices rather than low wages), but I doubt we'd se…

Even without globalism, automation will still give them a hard time. Hence globalism accelerated trends.

Re: Apple plans to spend $1B to support advanced manufacturing jobs in the U.S

#160

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Thu, May 04, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

lowtolerance wrote: post #45

ianceicys wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt. Look at the financials in China and you'll see a huge bubble that's just beginning to burst. Going to take a year to fully materialize but it will be ugly.

I've been hearing people say that there are signs that the bubble is bursting in China for the last several years now. This time it's for real, though, right? edit: I had a hunch you'd be the kind of person who would cite a zerohedge article as a source on this. They have been gleefully predicting the collapse of China's economy since the site's inception. No doubt, they will gleefully take credit for "predicting" it…

Not to support zerohedge citations but isn't it totally expected that people who see a collapse coming wouldn't be able to time it exactly? You know the common refrain, the markets can stay irrational longer than you stay solvent, doesn't that go both ways? That if I see the markets are being irrational, it may take quite a long time for the bust to actually happen? But that doesn't mean they weren't irrational and it doesn't mean I didn't see it.